Voter fraud absolutely needs to be stopped. That being said, it's incredibly rare, and occurs on both sides of the political aisle. It's so insignificant, it has almost no bearing on the results of a given election.

New Hampshire Voter-ID Law: O'Keefe Exposes Its Ineffectiveness | National Review

 

It ain't that hard.

 

It's also never been proven to have actually happen. It's if it's so easy, why are we only worried about illegals doing it?? What about average Joe?? Everyone readily acknowledges both sides aren't exactly honest, so why aren't we as worried about Average Joe who's an American citizen stuffing ballots, which again, is the far more likely scenario, and sorry, would be just as likely to do so for the right as for the left. Neither side is above that.

 

For what it's worth, I'm fine with. Voter ID laws. I'm not fine with paranoia over unproven fears driving policy decisions.

Both sides are corrupt I believe the left is a little more likely to do anything lie cheat and steal to win an election. But I don't think either side is above shenanigans. I think we both agree that to some extent illegal immigration hurts the country. I don't think we agree on the extent of the damage. And I know you'll never admit that the left is not above reproach when it comes to this situation at all. So I ask you given that it's a problem what is your solution, what would you do?

Both sides are corrupt I believe the left is a little more likely to do anything lie cheat and steal to win an election. But I don't think either side is above shenanigans. I think we both agree that to some extent illegal immigration hurts the country. I don't think we agree on the extent of the damage. And I know you'll never admit that the left is not above reproach when it comes to this situation at all. So I ask you given that it's a problem what is your solution, what would you do?

 

Before I answer your question, I have to ask why do you think I'm incapable of admiring the Left isn't above reproach?? Just because I support some liberal policies, mostly concerning social issues?? I'm fairly. Observation in many of my thoughts, especially on fiscal issues, such h as minimum wage (research my posting history if you don't believe me). And why personally attack me (and it's not the first time you've done so) when I submit, and defend my opinion without doing the same to you??

 

To answer your question, I've said in the past, I have no problems with voter ID laws. The only caveat being its simple and not costly to do get an ID. We should also provide better training and supervision to those who are working the polls. In person voting fraud by impersonation/misrepresentation is not a scary issue to me, whether it's done by citizens or non citizens. It's simply too inefficient of a way to attempt to influence or swing election results, especially at the federal level.

Before I answer your question, I have to ask why do you think I'm incapable of admiring the Left isn't above reproach?? Just because I support some liberal policies, mostly concerning social issues?? I'm fairly. Observation in many of my thoughts, especially on fiscal issues, such h as minimum wage (research my posting history if you don't believe me). And why personally attack me (and it's not the first time you've done so) when I submit, and defend my opinion without doing the same to you??

 

To answer your question, I've said in the past, I have no problems with voter ID laws. The only caveat being its simple and not costly to do get an ID. We should also provide better training and supervision to those who are working the polls. In person voting fraud by impersonation/misrepresentation is not a scary issue to me, whether it's done by citizens or non citizens. It's simply too inefficient of a way to attempt to influence or swing election results, especially at the federal level.

 

I'm not attacking you. You could be one of the exceptions but and I do say this not meaning everyone but most of the left fall Lock Stock and step in line no matter what the evidence or facts are. So I'll go ahead and give in and say that maybe voter fraud isn't enough to swing most elections but some are very tightly contested and every vote counts. Most of the times that is not the case. Now is illegal immigration a problem not just talking about voter fraud. Are there any steps that you would take to curb this problem. And I'd like to hear what you would like to do with the 550 million that have come over already. And we're talking about the people who have entered this country illegally.

^You're not saying there's 550 million people in America illegally are you?

I'm not attacking you. You could be one of the exceptions but and I do say this not meaning everyone but most of the left fall Lock Stock and step in line no matter what the evidence or facts are. So I'll go ahead and give in and say that maybe voter fraud isn't enough to swing most elections but some are very tightly contested and every vote counts. Most of the times that is not the case. Now is illegal immigration a problem not just talking about voter fraud. Are there any steps that you would take to curb this problem. And I'd like to hear what you would like to do with the 550 million that have come over already. And we're talking about the people who have entered this country illegally.

 

When you've singled me out specifically and said I'm incapable of admitting to party problems, refer to my opinions as "deplorable and treasonous" or wish ill will toward my family (as you did in a previous thread), I'm sorry, but those ARE personal attacks, and when it consistently happens, it's hard to write off as a mistake or accident.

 

There are not 550 million illegals in this country. Not even close. More like between 11-12 million. As far as what to do with them. If you've been here for a while, hold a job, and are law abiding (aside from being here illegally), then let's fasttrack citizenship. Bring them into the fold so we can take advantage of their production, hard work so we can grow the tax base. I see no issue of welcoming or accepting good people. For those who don't fit that profile, we need to work on finding and removing them. Then crack down on employers who keep hiring illegals to dry up the main reason for people to try to come here. Finally increase border security, and patrols, and find a way to quickly deal with those who enter illegally. We also need to do a better job of keeping track of those who stay past their expired work visas (as well as stay on the employees who. Infinite to employ them past their work visa expiration.

When you've singled me out specifically and said I'm incapable of admitting to party problems, refer to my opinions as "deplorable and treasonous" or wish ill will toward my family (as you did in a previous thread), I'm sorry, but those ARE personal attacks, and when it consistently happens, it's hard to write off as a mistake or accident.

 

There are not 550 million illegals in this country. Not even close. More like between 11-12 million. As far as what to do with them. If you've been here for a while, hold a job, and are law abiding (aside from being here illegally), then let's fasttrack citizenship. Bring them into the fold so we can take advantage of their production, hard work so we can grow the tax base. I see no issue of welcoming or accepting good people. For those who don't fit that profile, we need to work on finding and removing them. Then crack down on employers who keep hiring illegals to dry up the main reason for people to try to come here. Finally increase border security, and patrols, and find a way to quickly deal with those who enter illegally. We also need to do a better job of keeping track of those who stay past their expired work visas (as well as stay on the employees who. Infinite to employ them past their work visa expiration.

 

I apologized for what I said to you in the previous thread and I did not say your Acts were treasonous, I said that politicians who are turning a face to Illegal immigration in order to better themselves are treasonous and the deplorable. But if the party fits you gotta wear that. I rarely find a liberal who will denounce their own party when they are wrong, yet conservatives will eat their party alive. There are those who will follow no matter what, but most of us will call an idiot an idiot, you guys don't do too well to turn on your own when they're idiots. Hint most politicians are idiots.

^You're not saying there's 550 million people in America illegally are you?

 

Nah, pulled that number from? It's between 11 and 20 million. Hard to count people who don't want to be counted. Those are estimates.

Nah, pulled that number from? It's between 11 and 20 million. Hard to count people who don't want to be counted. Those are estimates.

 

They don't want be found, yet some believe they will risk being found to cast a vote.

And you ignore the point the the business owners of this country who hire these folks is just as big a part of the problem. And we reward these business owners by purchasing goods and services from them derived from their illegal activity (hiring/continuing to employ undocumented workers). Is that not "treasonous" and "deplorable"? Why don't they get the same degree of hate??

 

I think many on the right look at this issue with tunnel vision. Not once have I said it's not a problem. I'm just not choosing to ignore the other piece of the problem, or the implications of and what it's going to take to solve the problem. That's not feeling sorry for anyone, or guilty...it's being realistic and not letting my anger drive the decision making. Being realistic and considering all sides has nothing to do with "right" or "left". And it drives me crazy that so many on the right think that makes me a bad person, or as you so kindly say treasonous.

 

I have no blinders on. I see both problems.

 

I feel the Left has on blinders. The Left is the group that wants and supports sanctuary cities.

 

You keep banging the drum of the illegals help the economy. This is a false narrative no matter how many times you repeat it. Their money is sent back to their home country. They are a drain on our social service systems, be it housing or medical care.

 

You may support raiding the employers who need to be. I doubt you are for deporting the illegals that are found working there. I am for both.

^You're not saying there's 550 million people in America illegally are you?

 

50 million is not out of the question.

I have no blinders on. I see both problems.

 

I feel the Left has on blinders. The Left is the group that wants and supports sanctuary cities.

 

You keep banging the drum of the illegals help the economy. This is a false narrative no matter how many times you repeat it. Their money is sent back to their home country. They are a drain on our social service systems, be it housing or medical care.

 

You may support raiding the employers who need to be. I doubt you are for deporting the illegals that are found working there. I am for both.

 

Yea some money gets sent back. But you cannot ignore the money they spend, and more importantly what they produce in terms of goods and services from the jobs they hold. And factor in that's it's a significant source of not easy to replace labor (due to the difficulty and low pay of those jobs that make those jobs undesirable), and yes, they do have a significant impact on our economy. To look at simply from what they send back home, is ignoring a very significant portion of their total impact.

 

I'm not sure where I stand on raiding and deporting. Doing so will have a huge negative effect on those industries which will trickle down to all of us in higher prices in those specific industries, some of which are part of our daily lives. I'm all for getting rid of deadbeats and criminals that are here illegally. But those that are law abiding, and hard working, contributing members of society doing things that benefit us all...I'd have hard time advocating apending a ton of money and resources to round them up and kick them out...I don't think we gain anything by doing so.

They don't want be found, yet some believe they will risk being found to cast a vote.

 

The white elephant in the room.

50 million is not out of the question.

 

Sure, in another 100 years if nothing changes.