I tend to think Sanders and Trump are drawing from the same well in certain regards. Obviously, the ideologies and desires of their supporters are starkly different, but I sense there's large swatch of the population who are angry and feel alienated by their representatives in government who they believe haven't been representing them but the more powerful instead.

 

Agreed. People are tired of the same type of politicians letting them down. Trump is an "outside candidate" for lack of a better term, and Bern is the longest standing independent senator if I'm not mistaking.

Well put Habib.

 

I watched most of the debate, I thought Bernie sounded pretty good and made a lot of sense. However, socialism scares me to death.

 

Exactly. Socialism sounds great on paper, which is what makes it sound so attractive to folks that do not truly understand the genius of Capitalism.

I tend to think Sanders and Trump are drawing from the same well in certain regards. Obviously' date=' the ideologies and desires of their supporters are starkly different, but I sense there's large swatch of the population who are angry and feel alienated by their representatives in government who they believe haven't been representing them but the more powerful instead.[/quote']

 

Glad to see that I am not the only one who has noticed this. Their populist messages, while different, are both appealing to the disenchanted on both sides with a smidge of the establishment thrown in for good measure.

 

The fervor that their supporters have are qyite similar. One is almost radically nativist, the other is almost radically socialist (by American standards anyway).

In a poll of IA democrats 38% described themselves as capitalists and 43% described themselves as socialists.

A lot of our government is already socialism, arguably the best parts. Social Security anyone? We have long been a mix of socialism and capitalism. The pendulum has swung too far. I can't see how any people can have any freedoms if you don't have any economic power. Without that, freedom is limited to what the power is willing to let you have.

 

I don't care about the labels. Bernie baby. At least he is honest. Been on message for a gazillion years.

Good post MFan,,,

Bernie comes off as out there, but with all the baggage HRC is carrying this might be his year.

 

As much as the news media wants to paint the gop in disarray, the democrats have to be praying that Bernie stumbles in some way.

 

Bernie's closet must be clean, because nows the time to pull those skeletons out if the HRC camp as anything.

A lot of our government is already socialism, arguably the best parts. Social Security anyone? We have long been a mix of socialism and capitalism. The pendulum has swung too far. I can't see how any people can have any freedoms if you don't have any economic power. Without that, freedom is limited to what the power is willing to let you have.

 

I don't care about the labels. Bernie baby. At least he is honest. Been on message for a gazillion years.

 

Lots of folks will rail against socialism until they turn 62.

Lots of folks will rail against socialism until they turn 62.

 

If you are "forced" to pay into SS your whole life, you should get paid back at some point...

A lot of our government is already socialism, arguably the best parts. Social Security anyone? We have long been a mix of socialism and capitalism. The pendulum has swung too far. I can't see how any people can have any freedoms if you don't have any economic power. Without that, freedom is limited to what the power is willing to let you have.

 

I don't care about the labels. Bernie baby. At least he is honest. Been on message for a gazillion years.

I will admit he is honest...and he has spouted his completely crazy nonsense message for a gazillion years...

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I will admit he is honest...and he has spouted his completely crazy nonsense message for a gazillion years...

 

Completely crazy?

 

He voted against the Iraq war, and when he did, he predicted the possible rise of an organization like isis.

 

He was right about the financial deregulations and the financial collapse that nearly destroyed our country.

 

He is right about the laws which have led to the obscene influence of money that has purchased our government out from under us.

 

He wants us to have college educations, and health care, like many other nations manage to do.

 

I'll take crazy as opposed to dishonest and inept at this point.

Completely crazy?

 

He voted against the Iraq war, and when he did, he predicted the possible rise of an organization like isis.

 

He was right about the financial deregulations and the financial collapse that nearly destroyed our country.

 

He is right about the laws which have led to the obscene influence of money that has purchased our government out from under us.

 

He wants us to have college educations, and health care, like many other nations manage to do.

 

I'll take crazy as opposed to dishonest and inept at this point.

 

To each his own I guess (or her own since RM is lockstep with you). I am a proud capitalist. You guys are proud socialists. Like I said - our country is so divided. I think Sanders is not only a nut job but very dangerous. You don't. It does not matter though. There is NO WAY that the Dems in charge will allow him to win the party nod because if he does, the Republicans would win in a landslide. So arguing about him is a waste of time. If I am wrong, I will admit it later but I don't think so...

To each his own I guess (or her own since RM is lockstep with you). I am a proud capitalist. You guys are proud socialists. Like I said - our country is so divided. I think Sanders is not only a nut job but very dangerous. You don't. It does not matter though. There is NO WAY that the Dems in charge will allow him to win the party nod because if he does, the Republicans would win in a landslide. So arguing about him is a waste of time. If I am wrong, I will admit it later but I don't think so...

 

I guess I'm just at the point that capitalism to me, as used in the context of politics, is a scary as socialism is apparently to you. The power of Corporate America over our political system and economic system is dangerous. There is no representation of the "common" man at the federal level. And it continually upsets me, genuinely upsets me, that so many normal, everyday people constantly rail against having basic, common decency safety nets in place for their fellow citizens. It genuinely upsets me that people have such a vitriolic rhetoric to spew with a broad brush, because they can't see that taking the minority of recipients of aid who abuse systems, and applying that perception to the whole is as crippling to the resolution of the issues as the abuse. Tired of the nasty tone of the debates. So, with that in mind, I'll happy declare myself socialist, because the alternative is to align myself with a group I find to be lacking in empathy.

Edited January 23, 201610 yr by rockmom

^Lotsa folks want their stuff. Doesn't matter who gets stepped on along the way.

If you are "forced" to pay into SS your whole life, you should get paid back at some point...

 

True story. I retired from an organization after working there for 29 years. When they formed (bout 12 years before I started there), they had the option of not participating in Social Security (since they were "forced" to participate in KERS). They decided to participate in both.

 

And I can guarantee that with less than 2 years until I turn 62, I am happy as a lark that they did!

To each his own I guess (or her own since RM is lockstep with you). I am a proud capitalist. You guys are proud socialists. Like I said - our country is so divided. I think Sanders is not only a nut job but very dangerous. You don't. It does not matter though. There is NO WAY that the Dems in charge will allow him to win the party nod because if he does, the Republicans would win in a landslide. So arguing about him is a waste of time. If I am wrong, I will admit it later but I don't think so...

 

We have had a mixture of socialism and capitalism all along. Every day of your life you have lived in this mixture. We all have. I wouldn't get so hung up on labels, why not focus on the policies, what effect they might have, and not worry so much about labeling them. The big bad socialism monster is not gonna jump out and get you, you live with him on a daily basis.