I get the feeling that many people think we are being arrogant for having a different definition of a successful season. I’m not attacking smaller, less successful programs for having different goals. Don’t take it personal.

 

I can't understand why anyone would attack us for this. Is it arrogant for the military to set their goal to beat any other military in a conflict? I think not.

 

Sorry; never meant to imply that I felt T (or X supporters, for that matter) were "arrogant" for setting extremely high standards for "success." (And actually, encouraged others to apply our own standard of measurement to THEIR situation to prove WHY they are justified in having the kind of standards they do).

 

Please read elsewhere in other posts where I comment that I have nothing but RESPECT for the FIRST-CLASS way things are run at both T and X.

 

Please also don't confuse me for one of those people that are AGAINST the private schools.

Depends on your what view you are judging a successful season.

 

Coaches have one view.

Parents have another view.

Fans/alumni have another view.

Media have another view.

Opposing coaches have another view.

Players have another view.

 

Also depends upon your status. I am sure that Beechwood's view of a successful season this year will not be the same as Bracken County's.

 

For those of you who said only championships, that is sad.

 

As a coach, championships are results that occur if the talent you had to win championships, executed, learned the fundamentals and worked as a team throughout the offseason and results happen. If you have the talent to win championships. My principal had a saying....You can't make chicken salad from chicken poop.

 

To this coach, if I helped a young person become a better person, through a multitude of ways, then it was a successful season. Championships are simply the dessert on a really good meal.

 

 

I whole heartedly agree. As a Coach I have been fortunate to be on staffs that have won state HS championships, and conference championships in college. Yes I remember those wins, but what really defines sucess for me is running in to a kid I have coached that 10 years later has a good job, a young family, and says coach you really had an impact on my life, thank you for taking the time to help me grow. That feeling is ten times more rewarding and humbling than any ring or trophy I have.

Interesting 3 part questionnaire. I have a couple of questions:

1. How do you quantify talent level?

It's subjective, of course. But not very hard. And, it's not "analytically done" week by week...remember, in my first post, I pointed out that we do this at the END of the season, not DURING the season.

 

By "talent level," I mean a judgment as to how much PHYSICAL TALENT (speed, strength, athleticism) a team has position-by-position, in quantity, and in terms of even one or two extraordinary "playmakers."

 

You can do it pretty easily if you think of five or six schools you know well. For instance, do you think you could rate "talent level" in order of best to worst amongst the following teams: Lou. Central, Shawnee, Christian Academy, Doss, and PRP?

 

It's not an "exact science" -- nor is it really meant to be. But if you're not T or X (or probably Boyle or Highlands) where championships are the ONLY measure of "success," there's got to be SOME standard applied at the end of the season to be able to assess what needs to be done DIFFERENTLY or KEPT THE SAME to try and do better the next year.

 

Now, I would assert that Trinity doesn't ALWAYS have a "talent advantage" over the teams they beat (remember, talent is only ONE factor). That is a great testament to their players' character, the fact that their play as a UNIT overcomes individual talent on other teams, and superior coaching.

 

That's part of why it's important to assess this at the END of the season. If we beat a team or two with OBVIOUSLY more physical talent than us, it means we must've done a pretty good job coaching and we need to try to keep doing things that way in the future. Conversely, if we got BEAT by a team that we were superior to talent-wise, it means it was probably OUR FAULT as coaches. Also something important to try and assess and not to replicate in the future.

 

Do you coaches tell the kids "Team XYZ" has more talent than we do before the game?

 

Heavens yes!!! But not for the reason you're obviously thinking we would (to be able to use as an "excuse" in case we lost).

 

When I was at Oldham Co., we were almost ALWAYS at a pretty significant "talent deficit" against teams like Waggener, Lou. Central, Ballard, Lexington Catholic, and Danville (all schools that we beat more than we lost to).

 

But we USED THAT disadvantage to justify to our kids why we had to TRAIN HARDER than they do at most schools in the off-season and why we had to CONDITION HARDER than our opponents...as that might be our ONLY advantage for winning. It also helped us justify why we were so picky about PERFECT EXECUTION...the more talented you are physically, the more you can get away with "sloppy play" and still make big plays...but in the LONG RUN, if you're as strong as possible, as well-conditioned as possible, and you EXECUTE on the field better, a team of even less-athletic individuals can overcome another team with more individual talent. (I think MANY of T's and X's championships have been won in years where they were NOT the most-talented individually...and I'd bet their coaches played that up to get them to want to OVER-ACHIEVE vs. those more athletic teams. NOT to have it as an excuse in case they lost.)

 

 

2. Do you tell your kids the number of boys your opponent has before the game?

 

No; but again, that's GOT to be one of the ways you'd measure whether you're at an advantage or disadvantage (why else do you think it's prescient to have CLASSIFICATIONS BY SIZE in football?)

 

And again, don't lose sight of the fact that when we do, we're using that as a MOTIVATOR TO PLAY and TRAIN BETTER...NOT as an EXCUSE after-the-fact if we lose!

 

For instance, we are a Single-A school with 200 or so boys. We open with 2005 4A Semi-Finalist Henry Clay -- a school with TRIPLE the number of boys we have.

 

Now, if we LOSE that game by six points and are in it until the end, should we look at that as an "unsuccessful" game? We didn't reach ALL our goals for that game (like winning it), but when we ASSESS the game afterwards, we probably would look more to KEEP DOING whatever we did to prepare than to CHANGE what we did.

 

3. How do you quantify program support? On that same scale, where do you quantify your program?

VERY tough to do.

 

Think of the difference between what kind of support Trinity receives to have a first-class, great football program and what a school like Atherton receives. It's night and day. And as many T supporters on here have asserted in response to the people that cry they only win because they have no "territory," it's that SUPPORT that matters as much as anything else.

 

I would rank us at Pikeville in the top 25 schools in Ky. (in all classes) in terms of support. I'm (we're) very fortunate here. We have very few "excuses" for not being successful against similar-sized and even somehwat larger schools.

 

Do you have any concerns you might be giving your kids too many "excuses" for losing. Maybe they wouldn't say it, but they might think: "Well they had more fans in the stands. Plus that running back was good. And don't forget they have 75 more boys in their school. We didn't have a chance."

 

Never. Again, it's all in how you PUT it to your kids. We use those things as MOTIVATORS...and we're quick to say that JUST BECAUSE their RB is better, that's still no reason for them to win, because it would just mean our EXECUTION wasn't good enough to stop him and we'd WARNED THEM all week how much better he was (as a way to get them to concentrate more in practice, or to study their take-home films, etc.). If we lose, it's OUR FAULT much more than because of anything our OPPONENT does.

 

However I know you are a well respected coach, so what do I know. :thumb:

So hard to tell how things are said when it's in print. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume there's no sarcasm there.

 

Good luck this season.

So hard to tell how things are said when it's in print. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume there's no sarcasm there.

 

I would have used the rather than the :thumb: .

If we lose, it's OUR FAULT much more than because of anything our OPPONENT does.

 

Exactly! Too many times you hear coaches blame something that is out of their control for a loss. It's a easy way out. :thumb:

I want to say that I personally respect CoachJ and the great job he has done in leading many of our state's young men.

I think it really depends on your persective. I'm sure Trinity has a much different idea of what being successful is than say a Magoffin County. Due to location and demographics, MC will probably never win a state championship or a region title, and a district title would take alot. A program like this would consider 5 to 7 wins and making the playoffs year in and year out a success. I'm sure nothing short of a state title would define Trinity's or St. X's year as a success.

Trinity is Trinity because we set the highest goals and very often achieve them. Go ahead and keep setting "reasonable goals" and stay at the same level. If that makes you happy, great. But don't attack us because we set the bar higher and then leap over it.

 

I can see it now. The KHSAA will try to force Trinity and X to set “more attainable goals” to level the playing field.

Setting goals and having a successful season is two different things.

 

This year if Trinity plays in the semifinals of the state and at that point they are undefeated and lose a very hard fought game by less than a field goal, I hope that the alum/fans of Trinity would not let those boys thing they are a disappointment and failure for not making and winning the state championship.

 

Easily you can say that you did not obtain your goals but that does not mean it was an unsuccessful season.

Easily you can say that you did not obtain your goals but that does not mean it was an unsuccessful season.

But considering OUR GOAL, we did not achieve said success.

But considering OUR GOAL, we did not achieve said success.

And as I said earlier, success depends upon whose eyes you are viewing it from.

 

I wonder if Trinity won the state football championship but the young men on that team went on to be involved in criminal activities and overall not be productive members of society whether the football staff would feel it was a successful season.

 

I remember when sports was about "building character." Now it is all about winning, see the Bengals as an example. That is sad.

^ yeah, because that's exactly what type of SCHOOL, PROGRAM, ATHLETES, and COACHES we have

 

ridiculous

^ yeah, because that's exactly what type of SCHOOL, PROGRAM, ATHLETES, and COACHES we have

 

ridiculous

Quit being so sensitive. I AM NOT saying by any stretch of the imagination that Trinity is like that. Just wondering if the football coaches place ALL judgement on successful season on winning a state football title.

 

I am sorry if I offended you and I am glad to hear that no one ever leaves Trinity and commits a crime.

^ you can put IF's and But's in a lot of sentences, you just tend to try to ruffle feathers more than provide legitimate concerns.

^ you can put IF's and But's in a lot of sentances, you just tend to try to ruffle feathers more than provide legitimate concerns.

I will drop out of the conversation then and apologize if you feel that is my goal. I am a teacher/coach for almost 20 years now and want kids to be given an opportunity to be kids, learn and grow without adults over pressurizing the situation.

 

I am sorry if you feel that way about me and I hope to change your opinion of me some day.

For what it's worth, I don't believe that Championships are the ONLY goal at Trinity. I have to say, my son played there, and although his is not a name anyone would recognize, I know that he gained some very, VERY valualbe life-lessons while a player at Trinity. Among them, to win gracefully, and lose even more gracefully. He learned that "success is never final", and that it doesn't matter that you won last year's championship, when the new season comes around. He learned that success takes hard work, and then...sometimes...you have to work HARDER. He learned that sometimes, no matter how hard you work, you may not achieve the ultimate goal you set for yourself. But, he learned that even if the ultimate goal is not achieved, there is much to look back on and be proud of, and learn from.

 

In short, a successful program should NOT be simply about winning championships. As much as I know that everyone involved with Trinity football looks to that as the ultimate goal, I believe that the things the coaches would tell you they are the most proud of is seeing the boys they coach take the lessons they learn from playing football, and utilize them and become men who have learned to work hard, not give up, and find a way to succeed.

 

RockPride, if it's simply about championships, it's really a shallow program, don't you think?