October 2, 20169 yr Are you suggesting police should have to be shot at before they can defend themselves? Also, I'm not certain that our military ROE say they cant shoot unless they're taking fire. Dude talk to any soldier about the ROE in the military, or just go watch a Blackhawk down documentary from 20 years ago, it's only gotten tighter. Some units in Iraq doesn't even chamber a round. If soldiers in Iraq fired when they were nervous or in a stressful atmoshpehere, like we see with certain police incidents in the states, it would be ugly.
October 2, 20169 yr Dude talk to any soldier about the ROE in the military, or just go watch a Blackhawk down documentary from 20 years ago, it's only gotten tighter. Some units in Iraq doesn't even chamber a round. If soldiers in Iraq fired when they were nervous or in a stressful atmoshpehere, like we see with certain police incidents in the states, it would be ugly. You ignored the first question. Do you think police should have less rights when it comes to defending their own life than the everyday citizens? Police don't fire in every stressful situation. Do you think our military has never killed an innocent person? They're human too...
October 2, 20169 yr Dude talk to any soldier about the ROE in the military, or just go watch a Blackhawk down documentary from 20 years ago, it's only gotten tighter. Some units in Iraq doesn't even chamber a round. If soldiers in Iraq fired when they were nervous or in a stressful atmoshpehere, like we see with certain police incidents in the states, it would be ugly. Every ROE is different for every mission. During times of war, they just have to identify the enemy. They can call in drone strikes, air strikes, rocket launchers, etc. Right now, the ROE for ISIS is they can kill any person in the combat zone that supports ISIS. That means if they are carrying an ISIS flag or wearing a t-shirt. Doesn't matter if they have a gun or not. If you think police shouldn't be able to defend themselves until fired upon, you're crazy. As a concealed carry permit holder, do I need to wait until a mugger shoots at me before I am allowed to defend myself?
October 3, 20169 yr Every ROE is different for every mission. During times of war, they just have to identify the enemy. They can call in drone strikes, air strikes, rocket launchers, etc. Right now, the ROE for ISIS is they can kill any person in the combat zone that supports ISIS. That means if they are carrying an ISIS flag or wearing a t-shirt. Doesn't matter if they have a gun or not. If you think police shouldn't be able to defend themselves until fired upon, you're crazy. As a concealed carry permit holder, do I need to wait until a mugger shoots at me before I am allowed to defend myself? How often do muggings occur where you live?
October 3, 20169 yr How often do muggings occur where you live? Depends what you define as a mugging. But according to spotcrime, within 7 miles of my house, there have been 7 assaults, 2 robberies, 4 burglaries, 9 thefts since 9/26.
October 3, 20169 yr How often do muggings occur where you live? How much it happens is irrelevant. If it does happen he has the right to defend himself, that's that argument.
October 3, 20169 yr You ignored the first question. Do you think police should have less rights when it comes to defending their own life than the everyday citizens? Police don't fire in every stressful situation. Do you think our military has never killed an innocent person? They're human too... Soldiers and Marines have to give sworn statements regarding every contact they encounter on every mission, plus fill out all the mission paperwork itself. Whatever police bureaucracy you see, pales in comparison to the military bureaucracy. To answer your question, citizens rights to defend themselves, well that depends on what state you live in anymore. Police have the right to defend themselves, but was this a defensive situation? The guy had his hands up didn't he? Was the UC cop a defensive situation? As a society we cannot subscribe to a shoot first, ask questions later mentality.
October 3, 20169 yr Soldiers and Marines have to give sworn statements regarding every contact they encounter on every mission, plus fill out all the mission paperwork itself. Whatever police bureaucracy you see, pales in comparison to the military bureaucracy. To answer your question, citizens rights to defend themselves, well that depends on what state you live in anymore. Police have the right to defend themselves, but was this a defensive situation? The guy had his hands up didn't he? Was the UC cop a defensive situation? As a society we cannot subscribe to a shoot first, ask questions later mentality. As a society we cannot subscribe to a let a cop get shot before he defends himself mentality either.
October 3, 20169 yr Soldiers and Marines have to give sworn statements regarding every contact they encounter on every mission, plus fill out all the mission paperwork itself. Whatever police bureaucracy you see, pales in comparison to the military bureaucracy. To answer your question, citizens rights to defend themselves, well that depends on what state you live in anymore. Police have the right to defend themselves, but was this a defensive situation? The guy had his hands up didn't he? Was the UC cop a defensive situation? As a society we cannot subscribe to a shoot first, ask questions later mentality. I was not talking about this situation specifically. YOU mentioned military ROE (two of us think you are wrong on that), all i want to know is if you think police should have to be shot at before they can defend themselves? Sometimes some police will make the wrong decisions for whatever reasons. Should all police be held responsible for that? Should all gun owners be held responsible for one mass shooter? Why are you talking about police and military bureaucracy? Police don't shoot first, ask questions later. If they did then we'd see far more than the 1,000 or so shootings per year, considering the police make MILLIONS of contacts and arrests with people every year.
October 3, 20169 yr Soldiers and Marines have to give sworn statements regarding every contact they encounter on every mission, plus fill out all the mission paperwork itself. Whatever police bureaucracy you see, pales in comparison to the military bureaucracy. To answer your question, citizens rights to defend themselves, well that depends on what state you live in anymore. Police have the right to defend themselves, but was this a defensive situation? The guy had his hands up didn't he? Was the UC cop a defensive situation? As a society we cannot subscribe to a shoot first, ask questions later mentality. I agree 100%, but I've heard this argument on tv by rioters. I'm going to go out on a limb and say this tactic will begin to slowly be pushed on to law enforcement. This narrative is definitely out there. Not sure how you would ever retain a police force if this becomes law. I'm sure the powers that be already have that figured out.
October 12, 20169 yr I was not talking about this situation specifically. YOU mentioned military ROE (two of us think you are wrong on that), all i want to know is if you think police should have to be shot at before they can defend themselves? Sometimes some police will make the wrong decisions for whatever reasons. Should all police be held responsible for that? Should all gun owners be held responsible for one mass shooter? Why are you talking about police and military bureaucracy? Police don't shoot first, ask questions later. If they did then we'd see far more than the 1,000 or so shootings per year, considering the police make MILLIONS of contacts and arrests with people every year. The person who was shot in Lake County, FL recently for reaching into her jacket to grab her cellphone, I assume to fill the cop, was it fair to shoot her? She never showed any weapon whatsoever, yet had a hollow point in her a few seconds later. Should this be permissible? No weapon was identified yet a shot was fired.
October 12, 20169 yr The person who was shot in Lake County, FL recently for reaching into her jacket to grab her cellphone, I assume to fill the cop, was it fair to shoot her? She never showed any weapon whatsoever, yet had a hollow point in her a few seconds later. Should this be permissible? No weapon was identified yet a shot was fired. Are you talking about the lady who stole a car, led police on a chase, got out of the car against police commands, ignored orders, and then reached into her pocket while guns were pointed at her? At least according to reports.
October 12, 20169 yr Are you talking about the lady who stole a car, led police on a chase, got out of the car against police commands, ignored orders, and then reached into her pocket while guns were pointed at her? At least according to reports. It was a traffic stop, she did eventually pull over and approached the officer and was shot after putting her hands in her jacket. So are implying that if a regular citizen is in a verbal dispute with another citizen and one person feels that their life is in danger based upon the other party putting their hands in their jacket, like this officer said, that citizen could open fire?
October 13, 20169 yr Are you talking about the lady who stole a car, led police on a chase, got out of the car against police commands, ignored orders, and then reached into her pocket while guns were pointed at her? At least according to reports. Always more to the story. Obviously JA had an agenda and wanted to leave this information out.
October 13, 20169 yr It was a traffic stop, she did eventually pull over and approached the officer and was shot after putting her hands in her jacket. So are implying that if a regular citizen is in a verbal dispute with another citizen and one person feels that their life is in danger based upon the other party putting their hands in their jacket, like this officer said, that citizen could open fire? "She eventually pulled over"... This insinuates she didnt immediately pull over...why not? She "approached the officer"? So she didn't immediately pull over, got out of the car when she did, approached the officer, then reached in her jacket?? And you fault the POLICE in that situation? She did almost everything you shouldn't do when you are getting pulled over.
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