I certainly don't have my ear to the ground of heroin culture, but that seems strangely rational (purely in the broadest sense of "I can increase my risk-taking because there is a safety net") on the part of the heroin addict, and addiction seems very irrational by nature. So, I'm not totally convinced Narcan is the catalyst without more evidence. I would think that if Narcan were important for junkies they'd be stealing it or otherwise acquiring it to keep with them when they binge.

 

I work with an organization on the front line of the addiction battle and the stories of what addicts will do to get high while protecting themselves are amazing. They shoot up close to hospitals in areas where they will quickly be found so that they can get to the Narcan. For instance, parking in a crowded lot with their car running and their foot on the brake so their foot will slip off and the car will roll, thus causing a disturbance so they will be found and taken to a nearby emergency room. Other similar stories. It's crazy.

I work in this same field, and I would disagree with your friend's statistic. We do drug tests on every patient who comes in the door. Cocaine, alcohol, and MJ are the drugs we find most common to the self-medicating mentally ill person. Those previously undiagnosed are almost always MJ and alcohol users. Heroin, less so. What we are seeing is the boy/girl next door with no risk factors as our largest growing group of heroin addicts. This, to me, makes heroin far more dangerous.

 

Not a friend of mines statistic but someone in the mental health field that also deals with addiction and people often in the court system. Just to be clear they weren't saying strictly 80% of heroin addicts but rather 80% of substance abuse addicts have shown mental health problems as well. They were also rather surprised the % was so high.

This won't solve the initial heroin problem , but how about a program where EVERY person that has to be administered Narcan to counteract an overdose, those people are mandatorily sent to a group facility for a period of time (lets say 60 days). maybe this could be done at an existing mental health facility.

 

You have to go, and you have to stay the full time. It's basically your sentence, a "drug overdose jail" so to speak. In that 60 days you are given intense therapy and training on the negative effects of drug use, you dry out, etc. At the end of 60 days you are released, identified in a data base and given a final ultimatum...if you od again you will not be administered Narcan a second time.

 

I don't know, maybe it's a stupid and illogical or un-feasible idea, but there it is.

 

On the other side of it...people that want to abuse their bodies and get high, they will find a mechanism in which to do it. Take away all heroin, cocaine, oxy, pain pills, meth, etc., and the sale of model airplane glue and spray paint will sky rocket. How you fight that side of it on any sort of mass basis, I don't know.

One of my brothers is a respiratory therapist and spends a significant amount of time in the ER. He swears that with Narcan as readily available as a safety-net of sorts for users, it's only making things worse by removing from of the concern of death from the equation. He says we need to cut back severely on administering Narcan, id est, let more overdose patients die.

 

It's an unpopular thing to say, but I've heard others make this argument before and I can't say I disagreed with them. I've also never been close to a heroin user, nor lost someone to the awful drug.

I work with an organization on the front line of the addiction battle and the stories of what addicts will do to get high while protecting themselves are amazing. They shoot up close to hospitals in areas where they will quickly be found so that they can get to the Narcan. For instance, parking in a crowded lot with their car running and their foot on the brake so their foot will slip off and the car will roll, thus causing a disturbance so they will be found and taken to a nearby emergency room. Other similar stories. It's crazy.

 

That is pretty crazy.

This won't solve the initial heroin problem , but how about a program where EVERY person that has to be administered Narcan to counteract an overdose, those people are mandatorily sent to a group facility for a period of time (lets say 60 days). maybe this could be done at an existing mental health facility.

You have to go, and you have to stay the full time. It's basically your sentence, a "drug overdose jail" so to speak. In that 60 days you are given intense therapy and training on the negative effects of drug use, you dry out, etc. At the end of 60 days you are released, identified in a data base and given a final ultimatum...if you od again you will not be administered Narcan a second time.

 

I don't know, maybe it's a stupid and illogical or un-feasible idea, but there it is.

 

On the other side of it...people that want to abuse their bodies and get high, they will find a mechanism in which to do it. Take away all heroin, cocaine, oxy, pain pills, meth, etc., and the sale of model airplane glue and spray paint will sky rocket. How you fight that side of it on any sort of mass basis, I don't know.

 

Who is paying for that?

In my experience, those who want to get high, are going to get high. They will do it at any and all costs and do not give a darn who they hurt to get it done. They will lie, steal, fight and worse if that is what it takes for them to get their fix. They have no consideration for others, driving while high is common. Burglary and theft are common. They have no self respect and no respect for society. In my opinion, society owes them nothing in return.

This won't solve the initial heroin problem , but how about a program where EVERY person that has to be administered Narcan to counteract an overdose, those people are mandatorily sent to a group facility for a period of time (lets say 60 days). maybe this could be done at an existing mental health facility.

 

You have to go, and you have to stay the full time. It's basically your sentence, a "drug overdose jail" so to speak. In that 60 days you are given intense therapy and training on the negative effects of drug use, you dry out, etc. At the end of 60 days you are released, identified in a data base and given a final ultimatum...if you od again you will not be administered Narcan a second time.

 

I don't know, maybe it's a stupid and illogical or un-feasible idea, but there it is.

 

On the other side of it...people that want to abuse their bodies and get high, they will find a mechanism in which to do it. Take away all heroin, cocaine, oxy, pain pills, meth, etc., and the sale of model airplane glue and spray paint will sky rocket. How you fight that side of it on any sort of mass basis, I don't know.

 

It's a great idea, but the hard part is where and who does the money come from to pay for all these stays?

 

Edit: @HammerTime beat me to it.

Who is paying for that?

 

Since they aren't being incarcerated take it out of the prison budget.

Money would be better spent on productive, civilized citizens.

Since they aren't being incarcerated take it out of the prison budget.

 

I have no idea how the math would workout. These facilities would basically have to be like prison to keep these people there for 60 days. Just doesn't seem realistic. I can't imagine the cost canceling out.

Great question. I have even asked people who are current and "recovered" users what the answer is. They can't give me an answer. I know a couple of parents who are happy when their addicted kids are in jail because they know they are safe.

 

I do believe it is a brain chemistry thing, and we don't know enough about the brain to figure it out. I do think there will be an answer, but we haven't found it yet.

 

I wonder what would happen if, instead of 30 day programs, addicts could be in longer rehab programs, say 6months to a year. A good quality program might be favorable in the long run than short programs that fail. That takes money though, and Lord knows, Washington doesn't seem to care.

 

The user or abuser has to be willing to want to go to rehab for it to work. I have seen it first hand and one was willing and got treatment and has been sober and out of rehab recently. While the other went and got kicked out within the first three weeks. Person #2 is currentily in jail because of failure to comply with the rehab. And i know while it still hurts the family they are happy they are in jail and not out and about using.

 

The one in jail has said they would rather do their time in jail than go back to rehab. :idunno: Its really frustrating but what do you do. Me I am to the point to where I have washed my hands of the situation and pretty much shut them out of my life and my home. Weather its the right or wrong approach I dont know, but its my approach.

I have no idea how the math would workout. These facilities would basically have to be like prison to keep these people there for 60 days. Just doesn't seem realistic. I can't imagine the cost canceling out.

 

It wouldn't be as simple as take X from A and give it to B. It would have to be a long-term restructuring of how drug use is handled as a crime and how treatment could weighted against incarceration in long-term budgets.

 

I'm also not looking at any numbers, but I do know that much of the lobbying money for harsher laws and sentencing comes from for-profit prisons and associated industries. So, it seems if the financial incentive is there for them to lobby for it, then money could be found to allocate elsewhere.

Maybe, maybe not. Hard for me to have much sympathy for someone who willingly injects a lethal substance into their bodies, and I certainly don't think we should be wasting time and resources trying to resuscitate them.

 

Do you feel we should provide sympathy and/or treatment to the following:

 

1. Smokers

2. Alcoholics

3. Obese

 

We know cigarettes kill.

We know alcohol can rot the organs.

We know cupcakes are not good for us.

Do you feel we should provide sympathy and/or treatment to the following:

 

1. Smokers

2. Alcoholics

3. Obese

 

We know cigarettes kill.

We know alcohol can rot the organs.

We know cupcakes are not good for us.

 

Not even remotely similar, but no I have zero sympathy for people who suffer from or are involved in any of those.