If person A rapes person B, does the court system then let person B rape person A back?

 

Or more accurately: If person X picks a fight with person Y, then person Y is legally justified to punch them back in their own defense. Lets say person X breaks the jaw of person Y in that fight, is arrested for assault, and goes before a judge on the charges. Will the legal system then say, "Alright person Y...we're going to have a court appointed strong-man punch person X and break his jaw, and then everything will be even, justice will be served, and you and your family will have your closure."?

 

Our laws today? No...but there have been legal/justice systems down through the years that have done very similar to what you describe above.

 

Your first example though is not a very good one. It could be argued that it could be a punishment for the victim as much as for the perpetrator, or that it wouldn't be a punishment at all for the perp. If woman X was raped, I doubt very seriously she would want to "rape back" perpetrator Y.

JMO, but aside from the whole religious reasons for opposing capital punishment, there's the whole fact that it's a barbaric practice that should be beneath us as a civilized society.

What real good comes from executing someone?

 

What real good would have came from keeping him alive any longer?

What real good comes from executing someone?

 

First and foremost, capital punishment costs the country more money than keeping a convicted murderer alive in prison for life.

 

"If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."

 

Secondly, this idea of "justice", in the case of capital punishment, is little more than fulfilling a law that was written some 200 years ago (when enslaving another human being was also considered TOTALLY cool). It has been shown time and time again that the death penalty has virtually no relationship to the prevention of murder in the United States - in fact, the national murder rate showed a steady climb in the 15 years immediately following the USSC's decision to remove their five year suspension of capital punishment in 1976. Instead, capital punishment just drags the judicial process out, costs a ton of money, and continually brings the same painful issues up over and over again for the loved ones to cope with rather than allowing them to begin the healing process. Also worth noting...check out the "good company" that we are in here in the US as one of the minority of countries in the world that practices capital punishment (hint: there aren't many 'world leaders'...or even many modern civilized countries on the list): The Death Penalty Worldwide

 

"Justice", at its heart, is the idea of being fair and even-handed. If nothing else, we have proven time and time again that our judicial system is not "even-handed". Our judicial system isn't being "even-handed" when Larry Mahoney walks out of jail a free man 10 years and 11 months after begin found guilty of killing 27 people, including teenagers, in a drunk driving crash...yet Brannan, a man who was proven to be mentally ill, is put to death for killing a single police officer. Our judicial system isn't providing "justice" when they have findings like THIS. That linked article may not apply specifically to the Brannan case...but still, we have an incredibly flawed judicial system, and to hand it the responsibility of something as absolutely monumental as deciding whether or not a person should live (a right which I don't believe we, as human beings, should have to decide)....well, I think that's a pretty crazy idea.

 

"Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult."

 

Lastly, I understand that the family and friends of someone who is murdered is obviously going through some indescribable anguish...but what good does killing the person who killed their loved one do? Closure? How is life imprisonment not closure? There are also many many documented cases of murder victims' families attesting to the fact that the murderer's execution did NOT bring about any closure or help in the healing process. HERE are a handful of examples.

 

"Do not rejoice when your enemy falls, and let not your heart be glad when he stumbles, lest the Lord see it and be displeased, and turn away His anger from him."

 

Who are you to tell the family of a murder victim what closure is? The father of the victim has already made a statement about the execution and it was posted here.

 

I don't care about the money.

 

I don't care about statistics on deterrence. It isn't about deterrence.

 

I spent 4 years in college as a criminal justice major listening to my liberal professors telling me similar things that you are trying to teach me now. I've seen and heard all that. I don't care. It wasn't up to me whether or not he was executed, but I'm glad it was the decision they made.

 

Why are you so adamant that this murderer should still be breathing? He purposely murdered an innocent person, a public servant, "because he let me". Yet you are here going on and on about how he should still be alive? I've yet to see a good reason as to why he shouldn't have been executed.

 

Why are you so adamant that this murderer should still be breathing? He purposely murdered an innocent person, a public servant, "because he let me". Yet you are here going on and on about how he should still be alive? I've yet to see a good reason as to why he shouldn't have been executed.

 

Because it's a barbaric practice that only the most uncivilized countries still allow.

 

Because there have been far too many people either placed on death row or executed that have later been found to be innocent (obviously not this guy).

 

Because the guy was diagnosed with multiple mental illnesses and disorders.

 

Because it goes against everything I believe as a Christian.

 

Those are my reasons. I imagine CWB's are pretty similar.

JMO, but aside from the whole religious reasons for opposing capital punishment, there's the whole fact that it's a barbaric practice that should be beneath us as a civilized society.

Civilized societies often stemmed from "barbaric" practices like wars. Being a civilized society, IMO, has little to do with the way we dole punishment for particular offenses, especially the one as "barbaric" as the offender here. I suppose I'll agree to disagree.

Civilized societies often stemmed from "barbaric" practices like wars. Being a civilized society, IMO, has little to do with the way we dole punishment for particular offenses, especially the one as "barbaric" as the offender here. I suppose I'll agree to disagree.

 

No worries. I'm not looking to change anyone's opinion. :thumb:

Because it's a barbaric practice that only the most uncivilized countries still allow.

 

Because there have been far too many people either placed on death row or executed that have later been found to be innocent (obviously not this guy).

 

Because the guy was diagnosed with multiple mental illnesses and disorders.

 

Because it goes against everything I believe as a Christian.

 

Those are my reasons. I imagine CWB's are pretty similar.

 

1. it is barbaric, but it is the law in this civilized country.

2. Small % of people have been executed by mistake and I'm guessing they were not on death row without any priors.

3. He was and is a danger to others due to his illnesses and disorders.

4. That's the tough part about being a Christian and being OK with the death penalty.

5. Your reasons are valid and mine are different than yours.

1. it is barbaric, but it is the law in this civilized country.

2. Small % of people have been executed by mistake and I'm guessing they were not on death row without any priors.

3. He was and is a danger to others due to his illnesses and disorders.

4. That's the tough part about being a Christian and being OK with the death penalty.

5. Your reasons are valid and mine are different than yours.

 

The bolded makes it okay?

Who are you to tell the family of a murder victim what closure is? The father of the victim has already made a statement about the execution and it was posted here.

 

I'm not telling the family what closure is. I just think defining an murderer's execution as "closure for the family" is a concerning way of looking at things. I don't see how someone's death is ever going to help with any kind of real healing process. I can't see it having anything to do with anything other than revenge, and I if you ask me, revenge has zero business involving itself in the judicial system.

 

I don't care about the money.

 

I care about the money. Sure, there's no argument to be made for capital punishment being the sole cause of America's pitiful state of financial affairs...but it's attitudes like "I don't care about the money" that are making it even worse.

 

I don't care about statistics on deterrence. It isn't about deterrence. I spent 4 years in college as a criminal justice major listening to my liberal professors telling me similar things that you are trying to teach me now. I've seen and heard all that. I don't care. It wasn't up to me whether or not he was executed, but I'm glad it was the decision they made.

 

This proves that this is about revenge.

 

I'm a bit taken aback by you with your 4 years of college as a criminal justice major saying "I don't care about statistics on deterrence", and outright denying what professional instructors in the field are saying about statistics on the basis that they are "liberal".

 

Would you be alarmed if builders like me started disregarding their learning about structural engineering on the basis that they thought the engineers were "overly conservative with their design"? Food for thought.

 

Why are you so adamant that this murderer should still be breathing? He purposely murdered an innocent person, a public servant, "because he let me". Yet you are here going on and on about how he should still be alive? I've yet to see a good reason as to why he shouldn't have been executed.

 

First off, I'm adamant that ALL murderers should be allowed to breathe until they die a natural death. I don't think it's any human's right to take away the life of another, and as such, punishing someone with death is not acceptable. In this particular case, though, this guy was crazy and off his medication. I have a very close friend who is bipolar...and he has tried to take his own life SIX times as a result of being off his medication. Add in some PTSD as a result of combat experience in Vietnam, and I see no reason it takes a major stretch to enable someone in that situation to go off and kill someone. Mental illness is a disease. Execution is not a cure to it.

 

Here's a great reason to not execute the person: Exodus 20:13 "Thou shall not kill." There is zero reference to crime versus punishment. Zero reference to revenge. Just a simple order, directly from God. Don't kill. I'll stick to that, and let God be the one who doles out justice on killers.

Edited January 14, 201511 yr by Colonels_Wear_Blue

Lots of info out there between "kill" and "murder" in relation to the bible. Here is some decent info on Wikipedia, take it for what it's worth but it was easy. Feel free to research more.

 

"You shall not murder" (Hebrew לֹא תִּרְצָח lo tirṣaḥ) (sometimes translated as You shall not kill (KJV) or Thou shalt not kill (LXX; οὐ φονεύσεις), is a moral imperative included as one of the Ten Commandments in the Torah,[1] specifically Exodus 20:13 and Deuteronomy 5:17.

 

The imperative is against unlawful killing resulting in bloodguilt.[2] The Hebrew Bible contains numerous prohibitions against unlawful killing, but also allows for justified killing in the context of warfare, capital punishment, and self-defense.

 

Thou shalt not kill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unlawful killing...or "murder", is completely different from capital punishment.

 

I'm not telling the family what closure is. I just think defining an murderer's execution as "closure for the family" is a concerning way of looking at things. I don't see how someone's death is ever going to help with any kind of real healing process. I can't see it having anything to do with anything other than revenge, and I if you ask me, revenge has zero business involving itself in the judicial system.

 

I care about the money. Sure, there's no argument to be made for capital punishment being the sole cause of America's pitiful state of financial affairs...but it's attitudes like "I don't care about the money" that are making it even worse.

 

This proves that this is about revenge.

 

I'm a bit taken aback by you with your 4 years of college as a criminal justice major saying "I don't care about statistics on deterrence", and outright denying what professional instructors in the field are saying about statistics on the basis that they are "liberal".

 

Would you be alarmed if builders like me started disregarding their learning about structural engineering on the basis that they thought the engineers were "overly conservative with their design"? Food for thought.

 

First off, I'm adamant that ALL murderers should be allowed to breathe until they die a natural death. I don't think it's any human's right to take away the life of another, and as such, punishing someone with death is not acceptable. In this particular case, though, this guy was crazy and off his medication. I have a very close friend who is bipolar...and he has tried to take his own life SIX times as a result of being off his medication. Add in some PTSD as a result of combat experience in Vietnam, and I see no reason it takes a major stretch to enable someone in that situation to go off and kill someone.

 

Here's a great reason to not execute the person: Exodus 20:13 "Thou shall not kill." There is zero reference to crime versus punishment. Zero reference to revenge. Just a simple order, directly from God. Don't kill. I'll stick to that, and let God be the one who doles out justice on killers.

 

How is my attitude making things worse? And was any of the country's money spent on this execution or was this all on the state of Georgia?

 

Again, the family has already made a statement about this re: closure. I think it helped them with closure. I also think the victims family is important in these matters.

 

It's not about revenge, and I never said it was. You brought that up. It's about justice, and punishment.

 

Where did I deny what I was taught in school? I'm starting to question your reading comprehension. I said this execution isn't about deterrence. I never claimed he should be executed as a deterrent, so deterrent stats are irrelevant.

 

Do you believe in God should be involved in decisions made regarding punishment and justice? Everyone in this country doesn't believe in God.

 

I hope your friend stays on his medication. I hope everyone with PTSD gets treated for it and more importantly I hope no one else does what this man did.

Unlawful killing...or "murder", is completely different from capital punishment.

 

...if you take into account the priestly code from Numbers. I'm sticking strictly with what God said in Exodus. Not with what man interpreted.

...if you take into account the priestly code from Numbers. I'm sticking strictly with what God said in Exodus. Not with what man interpreted.

 

Wait, isn't the Bible actually man's interpretation of what God said? Whose to say they wrote it down correctly? :wacky: