Suicide is a selfish act and shouldn't be recognized as honoring someone or their cause.

I cannot disagree enough about this.

 

No one knows what the other person is going through, the saying "Until you walk a mile in someone else's shoes" applies here. I will say that the other people are the selfish ones, they are not going through that other persons pain, they have no idea how hard some of these people have it.

 

What about a DNR order? Isn't that about the same thing? You are refusing to be resuscitated and given a chance to continue to live?

As I said before, the parents wouldn't pay attention to the real and important issue. The kid was on 60mg or Prozac a day, when the highest recommended dose for someone that age is only 20mg.

 

I agree with InItToWinIt, the lighting thing was nice and touching, I agree they should soon light up the sign in some way as for all suicide victims and families. I think it was about half of all trangenders attempt suicide, also many gay and even straight teens attempt suicide, and it's not only teens who need the help. It's a very good cause to draw awareness to.

Suicide hurts no one but the family and close friends. It's an easy way out and most of time done on a spur of the moment.

This kid didn't have some life threating disease or suffering from physical pain like a cancer patient might.

The kid killed himself because he let society beat him, he quit fighting for what he wanted, and to me there is no honor in that.

 

And before I get bashed with didn't walk in their shoes, no I didnt, but I get depressed too, I get tired of things too, but I push on with hopes of a better day.

I have had family, friends, know kids who killed themselves, and it was a senseless act that didn't need to happen and only ones who got hurt was family and friends.

First and foremost...absolutely tragic on all counts. Absolutely, absolutely tragic. I'm not going to lie, though, after reading through many of the articles in the first 24 hours following the teen's suicide, I thought it sure seemed like the parents were being absolutely criminalized without the media sources appearing to make any effort at all to seek out their side of the situation.

 

 

An Ohio Transgender Teen's Suicide, A Mother's Anguish - CNN.com

 

A few interesting things I got from reading this article:

 

1) "The first time [Carla Alcorn] heard the name Leelah was on the teen's suicide note. 'He never said that name before,' she said."

Something about the use of the #LeelahAlcorn tag being taken up as a rallying cry for the transgender movement seems a little strange to me in that light. Might just be me....but anyway, yeah.

 

2) "Carla Alcorn said that she took away her child's access to social media because the teen was looking at "inappropriate" things on the Internet but would not say what those things were."

I took a gander at Josh/Leelah's tumblr site before it was taken down. There were pornographic images on it. Seems like the parents had a legitimate gripe here.

 

3) Carla Alcorn recalled her teen asking for transition surgery. She told her child no, she said, because 'we didn't have the money for anything like that.' "

I has absolutely zero clue what the cost of elective gender reassignment surgery is, but a quick Google search tells me that the surgery to reassign a male to a female can cost upwards of $24,000. That is the surgery alone, and does not include the price of pre-surgery hormone replacement therapy, post-surgical (permanent) maintenance hormone replacement therapy, or the price of the extensive psychological screenings required to be able to go through with the surgery. The idea of a suburban family with three children in school not being able to swing the cost of the surgery seems pretty realistic to me. I can see where a depressed and confused teenager might struggle to swallow that pill when they're being told "no" to something that they want so badly, but to be fair to mom and dad, it seems like their unwillingness to pay for the cost of gender reassignment was a major part of their son's decision to kill himself.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not many want to hear that. They want to lay all the blame on the parents.

I'm not buying the parents story. That's all it is to me, a story. The mother didn't know what she wanted to be called? Find that very hard to believe. I saw her Tumblr account, I didn't see anything pornographic images, of course I wasn't there looking for them in the first place, as I was reading what she had wrote. But you can't isolate someone from all of society for months and not expect them to get depressed, and if they are already depressed like she was, I can see where the depression will be at a very dangerous level.

 

And it was the parents who demanded that the Tumblr page be taken down, why? Because the kid blamed the parents.

 

From what I read, and not the "story" of the parent, The parents not only took her to a Christian therapist, I guess to "pray the gay away" the kid was on three times the highest amount of Prozac someone that age should be on for someone with depression. 60mg Vs 20mg is a heck of a lot. Plus, what is one of the side effects of Prozac? There you have some of the issue. To me, if the 20mg is widely accepted, then 60mg is almost a criminal act!

 

What I read, the parents not only made it very difficult for her, a lot of the physical pain was from the psychological pain they put her through. Telling her over and over that she will "never be a real female", and "what are you going to do? have sex (it was another word) with guys now?" All over and over.

 

According to what I heard, her parents started to punish her when she came out to people at school, and then also took her out of public school. Again, this puts a hole in the story about the isolation, it wasn't as much about some possible things on the internet, as much as it was about the image of the parents. But that was a year ago, a lot of time passed between then and last week.

 

I think Clyde said it, but I agree that the religious issue was secondary to the parents, they were more worried about what everyone would think of them instead of what was best for their kid.

 

I also think that the mother needs to take the route of the father, and just keep quiet.

I didn't mean to come off like I was accusing the teen of lying, nor do I think the mother is lying. I've heard it said a thousand times, and I firmly believe that there are two sides to every story, and then there is the truth. In the end, I think the truth of this story is that this is a terribly tragic example of misunderstanding and short-sightedness - on both the parents and on Josh/Leelah.

 

The mother may genuinely have not known what the teen wanted to be called. What if one of the last act's of this teen in trying to identify himself/herself was to choose a name? I don't know. What if there was genuinely no communication about it there? How many parents out there only find out that their kids are on drugs once they overdose?...or find out that they are sexually active because they get pregnant or get their girlfriend pregnant? I think to hypothesizing about all of this is virtually useless. But still, to deny the mother a voice and to take everything that her child said as gospel truth is wrong. Clearly Josh/Leelah wasn't acting rationally if the only apparent way to solve the problem was to walk into oncoming traffic. Is it that crazy that everything written in the suicide note wasn't particularly rational either?

 

As for the pornographic images, I certainly wasn't "there looking for them" either. I just scrolled down on the tumblr account and they were there. It didn't take much sleuthing or effort on my part whatsoever.

 

And to say that the child was "isolated from society" because they lost internet and phone privileges for months is a little bit of a stretch, in my opinion. I realize that society and socialization in this day and age is CERTAINLY heavily based around computers and phones, but I never saw anywhere that it said Josh/Leelah was locked inside a house and kept from everyone he knew. Granted, I was growing up in a relatively pre-internet age, but when I was caught drinking in high school, I was grounded from my car and the phone for 6 months...and that didn't end my contact with society.

 

I'm just trying to look into some other aspects of the story here.

As far as the isolation, hadn't the parents removed him from school?

This is a tragedy.

 

Suicide is never the answer. It is a permanent solution to a temporary problem/issue.

 

I have a daughter that is gay. I am well aware of the issues she faced early on. It's 2015, those that are gay do not face the same obstacles that she did 15 years ago.

When I was a little younger, I probably could be referred to as a Gay Basher. I try to be a calmer and more tolerant person now when it comes to interacting with people from all walks of life. While I still have my opinions that stem from my religious beliefs, I do hate it when young people die. Teenagers are so emotional, it hurts me that they sometimes decide take their own life. Teens cannot make adult decisions so sometimes they feel like life is not worth living. On the same note it would be very irresponsible for a parent or physician to allow/perform a transition surgery for a young person; even if the parents supported the decision, I doubt a professional surgeon would be willing to perform the procedure.

 

I do think it is dangerous to glorify a person that has committed suicide. All the professional development I have received as an educator suggests that the glorification of suicide can cause it to spread.

 

This thread has quickly steered back to the regular debate between the two sides on the homosexuality battle. While I am very 1-sided on this issue, I feel very sorry for anyone affected by this story. From what I understand, the kid stepped in front of a truck, I hope the truck driver is not facing any hate mail or threats.

I'll just say this. If I had a son who was gay, or a daugther who was a lesbian, I don't think it will effect me much at all. My son will still be my son, my duaghter will still be my daughter. But if my son told me he wanted to be a female, or my daughter wanted to be a male, I can see where I'll be losing a son or daughter. But then I'll remember, they are not mine to begin with, that God entrusted me to raise them and to love them. Out of all things, what is God? God is love!

 

This brings up what Clyde mentioned, the parents feeling embarrassed, ashamed that they did not do a good job and that people will judge them. Some parents will feel that they left God down, which is a shame, as what are we told is the greatest commandment?

 

As a parent, or anyone else for that matter, you do not have the right to tell someone they are going to hell! For whatever reason it's not anyone's right to do this. When we are told about judging people, the Bible doesn't really mean in regular day things, the Bible is talking about judging people on where they will spend eternity. I amy disagree with someone 100% on something they they are doing, but I'll never tell thhem that they will go to hell, unless we are joking about soemthing, then it's not really passing judgement.

 

When her mother kept telling her that "God doesn't make mistakes". I agree, He doesn't, but please explain down's syndrome and cerebral palsy, or any other, for lack of finding the right word, "defect". Adding the mother saying this, and the going to hell part, she is putting the kid into a corner, now adding shaming the kid to a point to where she feels no matter what she does, she is going to go to hell. Wrong!

 

As much as it may confuse me, I would tell my kid that I still love them no matter what, and what is even more important is that God still loves them! That they, like each and everyone of us, are special and the God has a plan for them as well. I would also tell them that regaurdless of what anyone says, we are all sinners, and that no one has the right to tell us our sins are greater than theirs and/or that they are going to hell.

 

I would take the approach in what Pope Francis said over a year ago "who am I to judge"? Now someone may say that I am not in this parents shoes, correct, but I do know how I treat people, and that I would treat people the way God would want me to.

 

As far as the suicide part, most, if not all people who commit suicide have a mental illness such as depression, God isn't going to judge them on an illness, does he judge people for having cancer or whatever? If they didn't have depression, they most likely would not have killed themselves. Same with this kid. And I'lll say again, the real issue here is depression and how people view it. you can have almost any other defect and no one will really look at you in a weird way, but when you have a mental illness a lot of people think very different about them, which is a sad reality.

 

I really don't think anyone would ever blame the truck driver. It's sad that the truck driver had to witness it as well as run over the kid. But, I see the point, the kid wanted it over, and wanted it over quick. But again, prayers for the kid's soul, the family and friends, as well as for the truck driver.

CINCINNATI lights on Duke Energy Center illuminated rainbow to honor Leelah (Joshua) Alcorn, teen who committed suicide - Imgur

 

The above picture is interesting IMO. There is nothing wrong with it, but I hope Duke Energy honors all suicidal teenagers as well.

 

CiNCiNNaTi Sign's Rainbow Mode Not Political

 

"The sign's colors, however, have no connection to the LGBTQ community's highly popularized rainbow flag that has been in use since 1978, said Ric Booth, Duke Energy Center's general manager. The "rainbow mode" illuminated on the sign was set that way for New Year's Eve.

 

The lights are not political in nature, he said.

 

In the past, the convention center has received requests to light the CiNCiNNaTi sign for a variety of causes, and all requests are considered on a case-by-case basis, Booth said."

Suicide hurts no one but the family and close friends. It's an easy way out and most of time done on a spur of the moment.

This kid didn't have some life threating disease or suffering from physical pain like a cancer patient might.

The kid killed himself because he let society beat him, he quit fighting for what he wanted, and to me there is no honor in that.

 

And before I get bashed with didn't walk in their shoes, no I didnt, but I get depressed too, I get tired of things too, but I push on with hopes of a better day.

I have had family, friends, know kids who killed themselves, and it was a senseless act that didn't need to happen and only ones who got hurt was family and friends.

 

This is obviously a very touchy subject, but I can't completely disagree with you on this. While I also think that suicide is a senseless act, I also try to look at the other side with the "I didn't know what they were going through." I just keep thinking about how everyone has gone through a lot of problems in their lives. People battle through deaths, bullying, drug abuse, etc. and still do not take their own life. I don't like suicide because it causes so much pain to the victims close relatives and people who are still alive and will now have to deal with their son/daughter, brother/sister, husband/wife who has decided to take their own life. It just isn't a solution IMO.

Parents probably made some mistakes for sure, right or wrong though, they should not be blamed for suicide. Only one person can make you kill yourself and that is YOURSELF.

This is obviously a very touchy subject, but I can't completely disagree with you on this. While I also think that suicide is a senseless act, I also try to look at the other side with the "I didn't know what they were going through." I just keep thinking about how everyone has gone through a lot of problems in their lives. People battle through deaths, bullying, drug abuse, etc. and still do not take their own life. I don't like suicide because it causes so much pain to the victims close relatives and people who are still alive and will now have to deal with their son/daughter, brother/sister, husband/wife who has decided to take their own life. It just isn't a solution IMO.

I agree with this. But will say that I can't imagine the pain that someone is that they feel they need to end their life.

 

I do think that often someone commits suicide more so to punish others than to end their own depression. In this case, she won. Her parents will suffer forever. But so will her younger siblings--and that makes me very sad.

 

I had a neighbor who shot himself in front of his wife. It was the day before her birthday. Final words to her were, "Here is my birthday gift to you." 3 young boys in the house that she has had to raise all alone, all of them always wondering what they did wrong to make daddy want to leave them.