I don't doubt any of what you post. I also understand the point he made, and I'm sure that what he said happens likely more often than not. But let's change the parameters just a little. Let's just say that a child has a particular sinful slant that they simply can't remove themselves from, and it doesn't matter what the sin would be, if the whole purpose of our being here is to make it to heaven then why would it be so out of realm of possibility that the parents would be bent on trying to help the child overcome it? I'd argue that if heaven is our hope and our ultimate goal, if I fall short as a parent in trying to guide my child in that direction the consequences are eternal. Sure there is a social stigma that no one wants to carry, but I'm not buying that it's always the reason parents make decisions that they do.

 

It is a broad brush and I do not say it anti-religion. I say it to point out that we are humans and we usually act accordingly. We look at us first when it comes to reactions/feelings/fears. What will my mom think? What will the minister think? What will my neighbor with the perfect child think?

 

I am not saying that religious beliefs held are not real. I'm just saying the first reaction is not based on religion. It's based on perception.

Sounds to me like your parents should hold a clinic! Many parents could learn from them.

Interesting story, B-Ball-fan. Also enjoyed reading about how God guided your mom through your sister's experience and showed her the way to love.

 

You are blessed with great parents.

 

Thanks hoops5... I am very grateful for them, and although they've gone on to greener pastures, echos of their loving support still guides me daily in every facet of my life.

An adult conversation about a really deep , emotional topic . On the internet . Who woulda thunk it ?

I hate it when young people die. I hate it when young people think suicide is the only answer. I think the public may be a little too hard on the parents though. They have received hate mail and threats (from what I heard on fox 19 news). The parents are living a nightmare that I have only experienced in a dream, a horrific one. I pray for them and their children. I also pray for anyone who is hurting, regardless if I agree or disagree with their life. All of us are human and all of us deserve to be treated with respect.

I hate it when young people die. I hate it when young people think suicide is the only answer. I think the public may be a little too hard on the parents though. They have received hate mail and threats (from what I heard on fox 19 news). The parents are living a nightmare that I have only experienced in a dream, a horrific one. I pray for them and their children. I also pray for anyone who is hurting, regardless if I agree or disagree with their life. All of us are human and all of us deserve to be treated with respect.

 

 

This.

CINCINNATI lights on Duke Energy Center illuminated rainbow to honor Leelah (Joshua) Alcorn, teen who committed suicide - Imgur

 

The above picture is interesting IMO. There is nothing wrong with it, but I hope Duke Energy honors all suicidal teenagers as well.

CINCINNATI lights on Duke Energy Center illuminated rainbow to honor Leelah (Joshua) Alcorn' date=' teen who committed suicide - Imgur[/url'] The above picture is interesting IMO. There is nothing wrong with it, but I hope Duke Energy honors all suicidal teenagers as well.

 

Why do they have to honor all. Why can't they just honor this one without people wanting their share too?

Why do they have to honor all. Why can't they just honor this one without people wanting their share too?

 

As I said, there is nothing wrong with it. But it implies that this death is more important/meaningful to them than another teen's death.

 

The LGBT fight is for equality, right? If Duke Energy only honors suicidal trans teens, that is not equal.

Sooo, exactly what cause should "Duke Energy" put up for the kid who shot himself in the head instead of being arrested for doing drugs at that hotel on Dream Street a few weeks back? It is ludicrous to think "every" teen suicide has a cause that needs to be honored or acknowledged.

Sooo, exactly what cause should "Duke Energy" put up for the kid who shot himself in the head instead of being arrested for doing drugs at that hotel on Dream Street a few weeks back? It is ludicrous to think "every" teen suicide has a cause that needs to be honored or acknowledged.

 

I don't know. All I'm saying is it could be perceived as unfair to the families of suicidal non-trans teens, because its like the trans suicidal teenager is getting special recognition. How is this special recognition "equal" if straight suicidal teenagers get nothing?

I don't know. All I'm saying is it could be perceived as unfair to the families of suicidal non-trans teens' date=' because its like the trans suicidal teenager is getting special recognition. How is this special recognition "equal" if straight suicidal teenagers get nothing?[/quote']

 

Ah, the trophies for everyone mentality.

Ah, the trophies for everyone mentality.

 

FWIW, I do not like that mentality. But as far as I know that's what the LGBT community claims to be fighting for.

The LGBT community is striving for understanding and acceptance that heterosexuals take for granted.

 

No one straight or gay ever chose their sexuality, as sexuality is what no one either in religion, society, or science has ever been able to concretely conclude exactly what is the determining factor behind what makes anyone anything.

 

Straight folks didn't wake up one day and decide to be straight, nor did gay folks wake up one day and decide to be gay. It's just a feeling, gay or straight, that is naturally within them by no choice of their own.

 

Why on earth would someone just up and choose something that they from early on in their lives would immediately, because of the negative attitude from society, have to hide within themselves for fear of social ridicule and ostracism?

 

Ask anyone who is gay if given the choice from early on, they would gladly choose to be straight if that were even possible.

 

If they learn to accept themselves eventually, and be happy with who they are, it's only because of years of sorting it out within themselves to one day come to find peace of mind with who they are, and understand that's just how they are.

 

Social pressure and brainwashing can sometimes have a horrible effect on people when it comes to loving oneself. There have been many gay people along the way who have never been able to adjust to even their own self all because of the huge effect that has plagued them through family, society, and religion.

 

Heterosexuality is the predominant sexuality within the world, which is without a doubt the reason for furthering the species, but throughout time a small but significant percentage of humanity, by no choice of their own, developed with an attraction for the same sex, and then some have the transgender leanings towards feeling within themselves to be the opposite sex of what their genitals would suggest.

 

Is it psychological or innate?

 

No one can say for sure, but it is without a doubt very real, and has been a reality within humanity I'd venture to say since the beginning of humanity.

 

Because of this, homosexual or transgender people throughout history have suffered discrimination from the masses who consider them inferior and worthy of ridicule all for something that they did not choose, while those doing the ridiculing fail to understand that it's, however small in numbers, a very real part of the human condition for some, and not something that is logically worthy of that endless, generation after generation, ridicule.

 

Because of the many heterosexuals who have never walked in those sort of shoes, some straight folks can wonder what the crying and striving for equality is all about.

 

If you've never suffered ridicule for your sexuality then feel lucky. It's not anything you've ever had to give much thought about.

 

When you grow up with gay feelings and realize the type of attitude you're going to receive from society at large, it's something that you can't but help to think about very regularly, and question how in the world you're going to live happily in this world that historically hasn't been too kind about it.

 

When a straight couple walks into a room nary anyone starts pondering what they do in the bedroom together, unless of course they're just full of obsessive sexual thoughts.

 

Quite often in shallow straight circles, although some might not voice it, there's a strong vibe that would suggest that they go straight to the bedroom in their minds to shudder to think what that gay couple might do, and often will be way off the mark in their assumptions, while in some straight male circles you might even hear the same guys illogically and hypocritically yuck it up about what a sexy rear end such and such girl has and what they'd like to do with her.

 

Straight folks just go through life with no question regarding their sexuality, while gay folks no matter how closeted or well adjusted, and depending on the mentality level of the straight folks they're in the company of, will often feel the negative unaccepting vibes, or even be subjected to flat out negative ignorant hurtful commentary. To the extreme, some have suffered physical harm or death.

 

It's really only been a short while in the whole big picture of things that society has been kinder about this topic (while not completely), but considering how long they haven't been, anyone's wish that the topic will again immediately be swept back under the rug is asking for that which will just not happen.

 

Until much of the world is once and for all reconditioned to understand homosexuality as one very real facet of humanity, and that ridicule should not be accepted, you're going to continue to see the striving for equality. It might feel a little "in your face" but just how much "in your faceness" do you think gays have dealt with historically for far too long?

 

The striving within the LGBT world hasn't come all this way just to give up and see all those years of progress just get tossed to the curb.

 

By comparison, relating to social conditioning, It took a while for the general masses to get on board with recycling and see the merits of it when originally it was written off as being a ridiculous concern of a minority of tree hugging beatniks, but through years and years of social reconditioning we've finally gotten to a point in our history where many in the general public have stepped up and have done their part towards being responsible about it, when originally it was viewed by many as asking too much of them.

 

If the push would have fizzled out years ago, we'd likely not be benefiting from it today. Now you hardly have anyone remember that those who pushed for it were the ones who suffered ridicule for trying to bring it to light, and are given zero credit for doing so.

 

This is not to suggest that there is any connection between the two topics, but more so in demonstrating the long journey with social reconditioning.

 

The LGBT community is not striving to ever have anymore rights that anyone else, but to have equal rights and share the same wish that many straights tired of the topic have, that one day this topic is a complete non-issue because society in general will hopefully one day be well beyond it being any big deal at all.

 

I've not any objection towards the Duke Energy Convention Center lighting their Cincinnati sign for other teens committing suicide for various other reasons, but I highly doubt that this was the ultimate point of them doing so for this one case as if they were going to start a trend regarding every suicide that happens, for that might be a bit of a stretch considering that they were just expressing their support of this topic that has recently grabbed so much attention.

 

The idea that your mind went in that direction might even suggest you perhaps still objecting to the topic at hand, and had to add your 2 cents all the while presenting in such a way to suggest that equality is your primary concern. I could be wrong but it speaks more loudly of where you really might be in all of this, and if that is the case, you are completely free to feel that way.

 

If it truly is a concern of equality with you, the IMO it's a bit of a stretch and the ends don't justify the means.

 

You however are the one who started this thread with poignant understanding comments regarding it, so it is my hope that I am way wrong about your feelings, and the your initial comments are where you truly are in all of this.

Suicide is a selfish act and shouldn't be recognized as honoring someone or their cause.

Suicide is a selfish act and shouldn't be recognized as honoring someone or their cause.

 

Saying that it's a selfish act might be a bit of a broad stroke considering all the various sorts of reasons that one might be experiencing that could lead to someone to decide to do so.

 

Say someone is 95 years old, and are now plagued by endless pain and misery from multiple medical issues that have no real resolution, and they want to put an end to all of that?

 

In that case I really couldn't blame them, however I'm not wild about this teen feeling that this was the ultimate solution for her problems, nor would I want it to be glorified to the point that it starts becoming a trend that society upholds as honorable.

 

In general though I do agree with you that in many cases it can be viewed as selfish, and sadly anyone brought to the point where they feel like they have no other option, it would be good if they could just hang on another day to perhaps see the sun shine again, or to get the help they need to help get them through what's depressing them.