So, if they are working and going to school or learning a trade, it's OK if they receive aid?

 

Much aid for those circumstances is available now and I think it's great. I'm all for helping out someone who is trying to move forward.

So, if they are working and going to school or learning a trade, it's OK if they receive aid?

Yes. I have no problem with aid, so long as it is needed and not abused.

When this is your response to Lipton Bash's quote that "people who expect other people to support them should not have kids. I don't understand how that is so hard to grasp.", you know you have lost the argument.

 

It was 10:30 and I just finished watching Sons of Anarchy. Forgive me for wanting to go sleep.

I never said people of a certain income shouldn't have kids. I said people who expect other people to support them should not have kids. I don't understand how that is so hard to grasp.

 

You said people who can't afford to have children shouldn't have them. My two counterpoints are income doesn't determine ones affordability to have a child. Like I've said, many of the ppl who you think can't afford children probably can, they just value putting their money else. It's sad, but it happens

 

My second point is if you content poor people shouldn't have children, then should the rich be forced to have them?

You said people who can't afford to have children shouldn't have them. My two counterpoints are income doesn't determine ones affordability to have a child. Like I've said, many of the ppl who you think can't afford children probably can, they just value putting their money else. It's sad, but it happens

 

My second point is if you content poor people shouldn't have children, then should the rich be forced to have them?

 

To your second point, that is an entirely different scenario. In a similar hypothetical scenario, (and I mean purely hypothetical,) if i can afford to buy a Ferrari, then I have the ability to do so. It does not mean that I HAVE to do so. It just means, that if I so chose to spend my money on a Ferrari, the option is there. However, if I am living on a Ford Bronco budget, I don't think many people would be in favor of me going out and asking for money to buy a Ferrari. Actually, it virtually every instance, I would be prohibited from getting a loan to make such a large purchase.

 

This is my point. It is obviously a very large investment to raise a child. I know how much money I sucked out of my parents when I was growing up, and I am forever grateful for that. Knowing how much money it can take to raise a child, there is no way that I would willingly decide to raise a child if I was barely making ends meet on my own. Its not like people making minimum wage are stuck at the same wage rate their entire lives. Get your finances straight, show responsibility and that you are capable of at least taking care of one human life. Once a person is capable of doing this, I have no problem with them having a child.

 

On a lighter note, it is pretty interesting the direction this thread has gone.

To your second point, that is an entirely different scenario. In a similar hypothetical scenario, (and I mean purely hypothetical,) if i can afford to buy a Ferrari, then I have the ability to do so. It does not mean that I HAVE to do so. It just means, that if I so chose to spend my money on a Ferrari, the option is there. However, if I am living on a Ford Bronco budget, I don't think many people would be in favor of me going out and asking for money to buy a Ferrari. Actually, it virtually every instance, I would be prohibited from getting a loan to make such a large purchase.

 

This is my point. It is obviously a very large investment to raise a child. I know how much money I sucked out of my parents when I was growing up, and I am forever grateful for that. Knowing how much money it can take to raise a child, there is no way that I would willingly decide to raise a child if I was barely making ends meet on my own. Its not like people making minimum wage are stuck at the same wage rate their entire lives. Get your finances straight, show responsibility and that you are capable of at least taking care of one human life. Once a person is capable of doing this, I have no problem with them having a child.

 

On a lighter note, it is pretty interesting the direction this thread has gone.

 

I think you made a lot of good points. I don't advocate having children if you don't have the means, resources, etc to take care of them. It goes further than just being able to financially provide for them.

 

My question about forcing the rich to have children is everything we know points to their children being more successful in life v. children born into poverty or near-poverished families.

I get what everyone's saying, and it looks good typed on the internet. But life is MESSY people. People with the best intentions find themselves with children. Maybe they aren't even their own children. And theoretically, it's a great idea to say that minimum wage is not meant to be a living wage. But for many, for many DIFFERENT reasons, it is. And it's a reality. And it's easy to make blanket statements, and it's easy to decide what's "right" or "responsible" until you live it. When you are living hand to mouth...believe me, the future is not even on the radar. I've been there. I absolutely know. Yes, I moved beyond it, and yes, it was in part to my hard work. But I'll tell you, there were some damn lucky parts to it all. I mean, I was working as a Front Desk Supervisor at a hotel, making .50 more than the people I supervised. I had an alcoholic GM who thought a lot of me and for no sane reason promoted me to Director of Sales and Catering. From there the alignment of the moons just kept happening and I was able to leverage that situation to make a SIGNIFICANT jump in my economic status. But if it hadn't been for a really bad business decision on the part of that GM, I would not be where I am today.

I get what everyone's saying, and it looks good typed on the internet. But life is MESSY people. People with the best intentions find themselves with children. Maybe they aren't even their own children. And theoretically, it's a great idea to say that minimum wage is not meant to be a living wage. But for many, for many DIFFERENT reasons, it is. And it's a reality. And it's easy to make blanket statements, and it's easy to decide what's "right" or "responsible" until you live it. When you are living hand to mouth...believe me, the future is not even on the radar. I've been there. I absolutely know. Yes, I moved beyond it, and yes, it was in part to my hard work. But I'll tell you, there were some damn lucky parts to it all. I mean, I was working as a Front Desk Supervisor at a hotel, making .50 more than the people I supervised. I had an alcoholic GM who thought a lot of me and for no sane reason promoted me to Director of Sales and Catering. From there the alignment of the moons just kept happening and I was able to leverage that situation to make a SIGNIFICANT jump in my economic status. But if it hadn't been for a really bad business decision on the part of that GM, I would not be where I am today.

Why was it a bad business decision? If he saw something in you that he believed to be potential (and in this case he was right) then it seems like it was a good business decision. Maybe it wasn't the alcohol that gave him the idea, maybe it was your work ethic and the way you performed your job. This is what it takes to get ahead, how far is up to the individual. You did well because of your drive and determination as well as your intellect. That's why you're where you are today, not because of a bad business decision. I say it was a smart decision on his part, he knew what he saw in you.

Why was it a bad business decision? If he saw something in you that he believed to be potential (and in this case he was right) then it seems like it was a good business decision. Maybe it wasn't the alcohol that gave him the idea, maybe it was your work ethic and the way you performed your job. This is what it takes to get ahead, how far is up to the individual. You did well because of your drive and determination as well as your intellect. That's why you're where you are today, not because of a bad business decision. I say it was a smart decision on his part, he knew what he saw in you.

 

Ummmm...no....I was in no way shape or form qualified for that job. I am not even going to pretend I was. I was smart enough to learn what I needed and leverage that situation and some others that came along to my advantage. But no...she did not promote me based upon any of my "qualities". She needed someone indebted to her so she could get away with a bunch of stuff.

Ummmm...no....I was in no way shape or form qualified for that job. I am not even going to pretend I was. I was smart enough to learn what I needed and leverage that situation and some others that came along to my advantage. But no...she did not promote me based upon any of my "qualities". She needed someone indebted to her so she could get away with a bunch of stuff.

See...here I am trying to boost your self esteem and you shoot me down.

See...here I am trying to boost your self esteem and you shoot me down.

 

Dude, this has nothing to do with self esteem. That woman had no business promoting me, and I really had no business accepting. But, I did and in the end I made it work. But seriously, if you'd have been our corporate office in Maryland, you'd have fired her for that, and probably me too!

Dude, this has nothing to do with self esteem. That woman had no business promoting me, and I really had no business accepting. But, I did and in the end I made it work. But seriously, if you'd have been our corporate office in Maryland, you'd have fired her for that, and probably me too!

Dudette, I was joking about the self esteem. :lol2:

 

I still say she made a great decision, even if her intent was self-serving.

Dude, this has nothing to do with self esteem. That woman had no business promoting me, and I really had no business accepting. But, I did and in the end I made it work. But seriously, if you'd have been our corporate office in Maryland, you'd have fired her for that, and probably me too!

 

And that's what hard working, nose to the grind stone contributors to society do. They take advantage of the opportunities given to them and make it work, sometimes even taking that opportunity and parlaying it into better opportunities. That's the American way. And we live in a country that allows that very thing to happen.

 

What some of us are saying here is, there are some in this country...far too many in fact, that would have used having a drunk boss as an excuse to quit, not looked for a job anywhere else, have tried to get on welfare and food stamps and lived their life that way while quite possibly squeezing out a few kids, just for good measure. And then expect the taxpayer to take care of her and the kids in perpetuity. THATS the scenario (and similar) we are feed up with...and it happens over and over and over in this country every day, and it seems to be getting worse.

Yes. I have no problem with aid, so long as it is needed and not abused.

That sounds like some stances on guns. Ironic.

Dude, this has nothing to do with self esteem. That woman had no business promoting me, and I really had no business accepting. But, I did and in the end I made it work. But seriously, if you'd have been our corporate office in Maryland, you'd have fired her for that, and probably me too!

 

So.........do you think it would be professionally beneficial for me to take my boss out and get him plowed periodically?

 

 

LOL