The apparent hoaxing of this supposed statement in a paper?

 

It shows two things - people are willing to create fake history to further an agenda. And others, including major media players and Congress members are willing to grab it and use it further an agenda.

 

People can and do have issues with the term. It is their perogative even if their concern is based objective factual evidence or subjective views or a gut feel. These concerns are legitimate.

 

But history should no be altered or fake history should not be created to further a end-state agenda. If this is as it appears - it would be a deliberate action to smear the Washington Redskin organization and amp up the discussion. It seems it have worked. Maybe it was subsiding and those pushing needed new 'finds' to get it back into the news.

 

The gross mistreatment of native Americans is a fact. There are plenty of factual cases and we all know the Trail of Tears - and it was probably far worse than any regular history book portrays. So the real issues of past and more importantly the present state of native Americans should be addressed.

This seems like a way to distract from the issue at hand. I wouldn't call someone of Native American heritage a "redskin" because it is offensive. Would you?

This seems like a way to distract from the issue at hand. I wouldn't call someone of Native American heritage a "redskin" because it is offensive. Would you?

 

Good question.

This seems like a way to distract from the issue at hand. I wouldn't call someone of Native American heritage a "redskin" because it is offensive. Would you?

 

And that's kind of the point that those defending the name don't seem to understand. Regardless of origin, who created, etc, the bottom line is over the years it has become an offensive term. How it came to be is irrelevant. It offends a bunch people, and even most of those that it doesn't offend would never dream of actually using the term in conversation. Why isn't that good enough reason to just get rid of the name??

Bengals

 

 

That name is pretty offensive this morning.

This seems like a way to distract from the issue at hand. I wouldn't call someone of Native American heritage a "redskin" because it is offensive. Would you?

I've never even thought about calling someone that, it just seems odd. Obviously, rjs4470 and other Native Americans find it offensive while others don't. In contrast, I've been called a Mick, a Kraut and even a McKraut. It never bothered me and they didn't give a second thought of calling me those, heard them for years. Some, I guess would be offended, I'm certainly not.

This seems like a way to distract from the issue at hand. I wouldn't call someone of Native American heritage a "redskin" because it is offensive. Would you?

 

Well, the distraction appears to be a hoax generated to throw fuel on the fire targeted at the Washington organization after some research brought some accurate history forward.

 

The term is out of favor - for whatever reasons. Got it. So no.

 

Its racial in background - even its most benign historical usage. Racial terms - whether they are meant a slurs or degrading or not - make people cringe and are not acceptable. So the end-game in terms of the actual term redskin as a team name or organization name is almost in no doubt.

 

One question is what happens with other native American named organizations? Such as Indians? Lots of high schools use it and obviously there is the Cleveland Indians. Chiefs - i.e. Kansas City?

 

Personally, I wish my old High School had used a native American name to replace the out of favor Redskins. Since the school itself is named for a specific native American tribe. Not sure what would be acceptable for that. They obviously just followed the path done by Miami of Ohio (Redskin to Redhawk).

I will add this.

 

After considerable research I have come to the conclusion that Redskin is view much like the n-word. But, accurately its not THAT n-word. Its like Negro. Both are race-based terms.

 

If a representative of the slaves of the 1800s had the chance to negotiate and used the term (Negro) back then it would have been similar to how No Ears or Black Thunder used the term Redskin - blunt but accurate and not derogatory. But would an organization name based on the term Negro be acceptable today? Obviously not.

 

So I am not saying it should not change at this point. I think the highest profile organization - Washington Redskins - are probably in a losing battle. The question should be more what do you replace it with that still has native American ties in a more acceptable term instead of defending the name itself.

 

Peace.

Well, the distraction appears to be a hoax generated to throw fuel on the fire targeted at the Washington organization after some research brought some accurate history forward.

 

The term is out of favor - for whatever reasons. Got it. So no.

 

Its racial in background - even its most benign historical usage. Racial terms - whether they are meant a slurs or degrading or not - make people cringe and are not acceptable. So the end-game in terms of the actual term redskin as a team name or organization name is almost in no doubt.

 

One question is what happens with other native American named organizations? Such as Indians? Lots of high schools use it and obviously there is the Cleveland Indians. Chiefs - i.e. Kansas City?

 

Personally, I wish my old High School had used a native American name to replace the out of favor Redskins. Since the school itself is named for a specific native American tribe. Not sure what would be acceptable for that. They obviously just followed the path done by Miami of Ohio (Redskin to Redhawk).

 

I don't know.. I do think those terms (Indians, Braves, Chiefs etc) are less (if at all) offensive. I still contend the biggest problem, isn't the terms/names. It's the stereotypical portrayals in the mascots, logo's and by fans on gameday. Chief Wahoo, folks wearing headresses and warpaint, etc are too me, whats most offensive.

I've never even thought about calling someone that, it just seems odd. Obviously, rjs4470 and other Native Americans find it offensive while others don't. In contrast, I've been called a Mick, a Kraut and even a McKraut. It never bothered me and they didn't give a second thought of calling me those, heard them for years. Some, I guess would be offended, I'm certainly not.

 

Here's a couple Louis CK videos where he says a mouth full.

 

Careful and don't watch if easily offended and there's also some "language"

 

 

Uh oh... I killed this thread didn't I?

 

I promise that I wasn't aiming to offend.

 

My primary thought when posting Louis CK was that he cleverly painted with humor that it's hard to call a white guy names that has much impact. Especially with the 1st video, he had me rolling.

 

The 2nd video I threw in mostly because of how he demonstrated how we still knee-jerkingly call them 'Indians'. No matter how hard I try, I'm still guilty of that from years of being mislead, and using freely the term.

 

I know that today's accepted term is "Native American" but even with that it feels a bit created by non Native Americans when that's not what they called themselves to begin with either, but it makes sense considering there are multiple tribe names, and for easier reference we all have to settle on something, and I guess that one's as good as any.

I've always had some weird sense that I was lucky to be white in our society as it's felt like it's entitled me to some sort of free pass.

 

I've never typically felt discriminated against or had to endure name calling, and even with my other particular distinction, since I don't ordinarily wear it on my sleeve, I've many times been in the company of those who might have a problem with it, but since they're unaware, they don't give me a hard time. I've had people assume that I'm straight and make comments like I'd no doubt be in their same camp of thought.

 

I've even sometimes for a kick and a laugh have downplayed an extra flair to confuse some gay people into thinking that I'm straight. A certain tame squareness can make some falsely assume.

 

For survival tactics while growing up in the inner city, and not always in the safest areas, I've learned somehow to be a chameleon.

 

I've learned how to dress down to go to the trashy Krogers in Covington. I've learned when walking through some areas how a pair of shades and my hood pulled up on my head from my hoodie can make all the difference. I've learned how to add a little bit of "street" to my lingo to not sound too civilized. I've learned how to create a look on the face to not look like a push over or too innocent.

 

I've learned how to dress up, and how to act to pass smoothly into functions that I had no business attending. It's amazing how if you look clean shaven, well scrubbed, and well dressed, and speak and smile effectively how people just assume that you belong.

 

It all sorta reminds me of the Dustin Hoffman movie "Little Big Man" if you all remember that.

 

I know that if I were black I'd have to pass a profiling inspection because that's just the way society in general is.

 

Even with some blacks in some situations they'll let me pass freely while they too instinctively inspect other blacks with a sizing up to determine their acceptability.

 

Age will play a factor too it seems in some situations because the older one gets the less likely they'll be questioned regarding whether or not they belong.

 

Perhaps I'm in denial because I "think" that I appear younger than my age, so in that, it can work against me. I've yet to perfect the art of appearing older than I am to make it work for my advantage.

 

I have at times dressed "college" to earn student discounts on tickets where I've avoided the adult prices to University events. Ball cap, book bag, inappropriate to my age logo on a T-shirt, and jeans and a certain look on the face can sometimes take 25-30 years off my appearance.

 

OK... I've outed myself here.... I'm one big phoney.

 

Whatever works, huh?

^ It wasn't my point to say that being called names has as much impact when you're white. Just that no one escapes it and that not everyone gets offended but even some white people do. There are actually people that get offended at being called names like I've been called. I don't get it. It isn't the same, yet it still happens. There are some that actually get offended at the team name The Fighting Irish. Point is, some people look to be offended by anything and everything. That's how I see white people that are extremely outraged by the term Redskin. I get why Native Americans are outraged by it and if they want it changed then change it. I refuse to listen to people that have no dog in the fight.

^ It wasn't my point to say that being called names has as much impact when you're white. Just that no one escapes it and that not everyone gets offended but even some white people do. There are actually people that get offended at being called names like I've been called. I don't get it. It isn't the same, yet it still happens. There are some that actually get offended at the team name The Fighting Irish. Point is, some people look to be offended by anything and everything. That's how I see white people that are extremely outraged by the term Redskin. I get why Native Americans are outraged by it and if they want it changed then change it. I refuse to listen to people that have no dog in the fight.

 

I dig what you're saying and especially the "No Dog In The Fight" thing.

 

In looking back since I was a blubbery chubby little kid, I did get the "Fatso" thing that bothered the heck out of me, and prayed that in basketball practice I wouldn't be selected to be on the skins side. Oh how I dreaded that. One of my teammates when I was about 9 told me I needed a bra. How embarrassing is that? Luckily I finally shaped up some and can get by with just an A or B cup size. :lol2:

^ It wasn't my point to say that being called names has as much impact when you're white. Just that no one escapes it and that not everyone gets offended but even some white people do. There are actually people that get offended at being called names like I've been called. I don't get it. It isn't the same, yet it still happens. There are some that actually get offended at the team name The Fighting Irish. Point is, some people look to be offended by anything and everything. That's how I see white people that are extremely outraged by the term Redskin. I get why Native Americans are outraged by it and if they want it changed then change it. I refuse to listen to people that have no dog in the fight.

 

 

To take things a little further, I don't understand how those who do defend the name and have no dog in the fight, feel it necessary to tell people what should and should not offend those who are affected.

I've always had some weird sense that I was lucky to be white in our society as it's felt like it's entitled me to some sort of free pass.

 

I've never typically felt discriminated against or had to endure name calling, and even with my other particular distinction, since I don't ordinarily wear it on my sleeve, I've many times been in the company of those who might have a problem with it, but since they're unaware, they don't give me a hard time. I've had people assume that I'm straight and make comments like I'd no doubt be in their same camp of thought.

 

I've even sometimes for a kick and a laugh have downplayed an extra flair to confuse some gay people into thinking that I'm straight. A certain tame squareness can make some falsely assume.

 

For survival tactics while growing up in the inner city, and not always in the safest areas, I've learned somehow to be a chameleon.

 

I've learned how to dress down to go to the trashy Krogers in Covington. I've learned when walking through some areas how a pair of shades and my hood pulled up on my head from my hoodie can make all the difference. I've learned how to add a little bit of "street" to my lingo to not sound too civilized. I've learned how to create a look on the face to not look like a push over or too innocent.

 

I've learned how to dress up, and how to act to pass smoothly into functions that I had no business attending. It's amazing how if you look clean shaven, well scrubbed, and well dressed, and speak and smile effectively how people just assume that you belong.

 

It all sorta reminds me of the Dustin Hoffman movie "Little Big Man" if you all remember that.

 

I know that if I were black I'd have to pass a profiling inspection because that's just the way society in general is.

 

Even with some blacks in some situations they'll let me pass freely while they too instinctively inspect other blacks with a sizing up to determine their acceptability.

 

Age will play a factor too it seems in some situations because the older one gets the less likely they'll be questioned regarding whether or not they belong.

 

Perhaps I'm in denial because I "think" that I appear younger than my age, so in that, it can work against me. I've yet to perfect the art of appearing older than I am to make it work for my advantage.

 

I have at times dressed "college" to earn student discounts on tickets where I've avoided the adult prices to University events. Ball cap, book bag, inappropriate to my age logo on a T-shirt, and jeans and a certain look on the face can sometimes take 25-30 years off my appearance.

 

OK... I've outed myself here.... I'm one big phoney.

 

Whatever works, huh?

 

I think, to sum up your post, it falls in the whole "act like you're supposed to be there and nobody will ever question you" line of thinking. I've used it well over the years.