October 4, 201412 yr Maybe true of some and I'm sure it's true that some just think they know what's better for everyone else. Isn't that the root of the whole concept of having an opinion on something?
October 5, 201412 yr Isn't that the root of the whole concept of having an opinion on something?They don't think it's an opinion, they think they really know better than you, me or anyone else.
October 5, 201412 yr They don't think it's an opinion, they think they really know better than you, me or anyone else. And that's their opinion. Just like you think you know better than anybody else about global warming. What's the difference other than where it's coming from ideologically?
October 5, 201412 yr And that's their opinion. Just like you think you know better than anybody else about global warming. What's the difference other than where it's coming from ideologically?I don't try to force my opinion on anyone. It's my opinion in a debate, I'm not telling anyone they have to think this way. A BIG difference.
October 5, 201412 yr I don't try to force my opinion on anyone. It's my opinion in a debate, I'm not telling anyone they have to think this way. A BIG difference. How is your feelings of it being "forced upon you" any different than what I feel from the Baptist/Christian/Evangelical Hammer?
October 6, 201412 yr Interesting apparent internet hoax that has propogated well into the debate. Someone who claims to have the name Dallas Goldtooth apparently 'found' an article from Minnesota paper from 1863 offering $200 for each Redskin sent to purgatory. It supposedly (but not directly) implied the count was based on scalps. A fairly gruesome graphical image. This has made it way will into the discussion. Senator ties NFL tax status to Redskins name Rep. Betty McCollum, D-Minn., offered a counterargument by displaying an 1863 newspaper front page that included the sentence: "The state reward for dead Indians has been increased to $200 for every red-skin sent to Purgatory." "It can only be money that motivates the NFL with a slur that harkens back to the darkest days, when a white man could get paid for hunting down and murdering an Indian in cold blood for money," McCollum said. "This team name is a reminder of that brutal violence." http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/11/13/dakota-man-exposes-vile-history-redskins-facebook-152241 9 Ways to Argue Against ?Redskins? Name Without Offending Other Groups - ICTMN.com 8 Big Lies History Books Tell About Natives | On First Nation Issues, Events, And Environmental Issues On The West Coast And World Events. According to a multitude of Native Historians and historical accounts, the term "Redskin" denotes money paid toward the eradication of Native Americans. An example is provided by Dallas Goldtooth, who posted an 1863 newspaper clipping on his Facebook page that advertised a reward for dead Indians as ‘$200 for every red-skin sent to Purgatory.’ In his post, Goldtooth wrote, “It was only five generations ago that a white man could get money for one of my grandfather’s scalps.” Jon's Blog: Is "Redskins" Truly a Term of Respect towards American Indians? I read the following article on Indian Country earlier this evening and it shares a 1863 clipping from The Daily Republican out of Winona, MN and pretty bluntly demonstrates the historical truth behind the term "redskin": From this last link someone added a comment that cited an archive source of the newspaper that supposedly ran the bounty. It's several months since you posted this, but I feel pretty sure that this is an altered image. Winona State University has made available all the old issues of Winona newspapers online. The image does indeed to appear on page 2 in the upper left corner, but the lower paragraph about a dead Indian bounty is just nowhere to be seen: http://digital.olivesoftware.com/Repository/TWR/1863/09/24/035-TWR-1863-09-24-001-SINGLE.PDF#OLV0_Entity_0002_0001 Direct link to arcive: http://http://digital.olivesoftware.com/Repository/TWR/1863/09/24/035-TWR-1863-09-24-001-SINGLE.PDF#OLV0_Entity_0002_0001
October 6, 201412 yr Saw this Columbus, Oh band "The Toll" perform this epic song around '87 or '88 when they opened up for Joan Jett at Bogarts in Cincinnati. I was blown away, and It still chills me to hear it today. My sister took a couple trips out west with a local church a few years back to donate clothing and goods to folks living on the reservations. We here in these parts are sometimes unaware of just how much the Native American is effected still today by the ethnic cleansing that took place years ago, and what effect it still has on so many that were nudged along to not so fertile grounds. There's no doubt that my white upbringing never came close to painting the true picture to me, therefore I was essentially lied to for years to avoid having known the reality of things, and my white world never once expressed a sense of guilt, or shared a sense of empathy about it. it was just swept under the carpet, and when it wasn't, it was just presented in such a way that would suggest that it's what the white guys needed to do. I sure hope the history books are not still telling fairy tales to the kids in school today.
October 6, 201412 yr Interesting apparent internet hoax that has propogated well into the debate. Someone who claims to have the name Dallas Goldtooth apparently 'found' an article from Minnesota paper from 1863 offering $200 for each Redskin sent to purgatory. It supposedly (but not directly) implied the count was based on scalps. A fairly gruesome graphical image. This has made it way will into the discussion. Senator ties NFL tax status to Redskins name http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/11/13/dakota-man-exposes-vile-history-redskins-facebook-152241 9 Ways to Argue Against ?Redskins? Name Without Offending Other Groups - ICTMN.com 8 Big Lies History Books Tell About Natives | On First Nation Issues, Events, And Environmental Issues On The West Coast And World Events. Jon's Blog: Is "Redskins" Truly a Term of Respect towards American Indians? From this last link someone added a comment that cited an archive source of the newspaper that supposedly ran the bounty. Direct link to arcive: http://http://digital.olivesoftware.com/Repository/TWR/1863/09/24/035-TWR-1863-09-24-001-SINGLE.PDF#OLV0_Entity_0002_0001 Still not sure what a bunch of stuff from 1863 has to do with today.
October 6, 201412 yr How do you feel that this factors into the debate? The apparent hoaxing of this supposed statement in a paper? It shows two things - people are willing to create fake history to further an agenda. And others, including major media players and Congress members are willing to grab it and use it further an agenda. People can and do have issues with the term. It is their perogative even if their concern is based objective factual evidence or subjective views or a gut feel. These concerns are legitimate. But history should no be altered or fake history should not be created to further a end-state agenda. If this is as it appears - it would be a deliberate action to smear the Washington Redskin organization and amp up the discussion. It seems it have worked. Maybe it was subsiding and those pushing needed new 'finds' to get it back into the news. The gross mistreatment of native Americans is a fact. There are plenty of factual cases and we all know the Trail of Tears - and it was probably far worse than any regular history book portrays. So the real issues of past and more importantly the present state of native Americans should be addressed.
October 6, 201412 yr Still not sure what a bunch of stuff from 1863 has to do with today. Internet folklore says that 'redskin' referred to actual scalps. This supposed find was originally posted on facebook. It supposedly 'proved' the folklore. This seemed to be a direct attempt to refute the earlier posted Smithsonian Institution artcle that included considerable research. That is because there is no written evidence that the term was actually directly associated with actual scalps.
October 6, 201412 yr Internet folklore says that 'redskin' referred to actual scalps. This supposed find was originally posted on facebook. It supposedly 'proved' the folklore. This seemed to be a direct attempt to refute the earlier posted Smithsonian Institution artcle that included considerable research. That is because there is no written evidence that the term was actually directly associated with actual scalps. Again, what difference does your history make if actual Native Americans don't like it? By your logic, we should start calling all Atlanta teams the N____ers. After all, it was accepted by blacks in 1863.
October 6, 201412 yr How is your feelings of it being "forced upon you" any different than what I feel from the Baptist/Christian/Evangelical Hammer?Not on me but, I don't know. Are they using political power to change things to their way of thinking? Are they talking about levying fines on you for use of a name they don't agree with?
October 6, 201412 yr Again, what difference does your history make if actual Native Americans don't like it? By your logic, we should start calling all Atlanta teams the N____ers. After all, it was accepted by blacks in 1863. The issue is lying and creating hoaxes to back the argument. If people not liking it ia good enough, so be it. It today's facebook/twitter world that is certainly enough. But do not trump up the discussion with hoaxes and outright known lies to villianize or creat false imagery.
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.