Hines was definitely a elite receiver. He will be in the HOF as the Steelers all time receiving leader, how that isn't elite I don't know. They also as it was mentioned also had Plax there too. Basically if someone is trying to make an argument that Ben didn't have weapons like they say about Brady, well that argument doesn't really hold water.

He had Plax one year. Ward was a great receiver but never thought of him as elite. I don't think I would have ever put him in the top 5 or 6 receivers in the game any year he was playing. While Brady has had some pretty no name guys over the years he did have Moss 3 full years.

Hines was definitely a elite receiver. He will be in the HOF as the Steelers all time receiving leader, how that isn't elite I don't know. They also as it was mentioned also had Plax there too. Basically if someone is trying to make an argument that Ben didn't have weapons like they say about Brady, well that argument doesn't really hold water.

Did anyone, ever, game plan to try to take Hines away because he could beat them like an elite receiver can? The answer is no. You can try to make your case against Ben because you don't like him and that's fine. But it's ok for you to be wrong.

It was a perfect tackle and shouldn't have been flagged. Hochuli was behind was the one that threw the flag. He saw Ben's head snap back and assumed it was a hit to his chin or head. Upshaw didn't get him with the crown. He put his face mask in Ben's chest and drilled him. Ed blew it.

Totally agree.

I'll end my support of Ben with this, I think he's done more with less than any other QB in the league in his tenure, all things considered. (Running game, OL, WR corps, etc.)

I do think Ben is a great QB.. He has never had what I would call a great receiver. I am not agreement with Spin on AB only. He is unbelievable in space, YAC, and getting behind DB's, but can be handled with the proper attention. He scares me more on punt returns. Double teams usually takes him out off most games. The only way he is effective against double teams is throwing underneath and he does his thing. He is very very good, though.

I do think Ben is a great QB.. He has never had what I would call a great receiver. I am not agreement with Spin on AB only. He is unbelievable in space, YAC, and getting behind DB's, but can be handled with the proper attention. He scares me more on punt returns. Double teams usually takes him out off most games. The only way he is effective against double teams is throwing underneath and he does his thing. He is very very good, though.

Safety help is always to AB's side. Until Wheaton on the opposite side or whomever is in the slot can command attention with the nickel corner, and can show that the one on one matchup isn't enough, AB will still have his issues. I'd ask Joe Haden if he thinks AB is in that elite class.

You forget the speed he has had with some of his WR's and you also forget Hines Ward.

 

No I didn't forget about them. He referred to how he doesn't have guys who could go up and get the ball like a Green, Megatron, etc. and I was just pointing out how he did have someone like that in the past. Big Ben definitely has had an overall good WR core to throw to for most of his career, because as you pointed out he may have only had Plax who could go up and get a ball but he did have a lot of speed and a top possession guy like Ward.

 

No but he did have plax who while not an elite wr he was able to win jump balls which he was talking about in that post.

 

Hasn't he won super bowls since then?

He had some of the fastest WR's in the league and he's had hall of famers like Hines Ward. To think he hasn't had weapons is false.

 

Did I say that or did you make it up?

Hines was definitely a elite receiver. He will be in the HOF as the Steelers all time receiving leader, how that isn't elite I don't know. They also as it was mentioned also had Plax there too. Basically if someone is trying to make an argument that Ben didn't have weapons like they say about Brady, well that argument doesn't really hold water.

 

Ward was an elite receiver? Huh?

 

He was good and is probably a Steelers legend but he was far from elite during his last few years in pitt.

Guru's fascination with the Steelers lately is interesting...

 

Who knows how the season turns out but for once it is nice to clearly be the superior team.

Last 6 quarters the Terrible Towels have been outscored 50-9.

Last 6 quarters the Terrible Towels have been outscored 50-9.

 

It's only gonna get worse.

I'll end my support of Ben with this, I think he's done more with less than any other QB in the league in his tenure, all things considered. (Running game, OL, WR corps, etc.)

So having a Hall of Fame RB and a Hall of Fame WR is considered less?

 

Can I remind you that the Bengals have never had a Hall of Fame RB or a Hall of Fame WR at the same time much less ever in their franchise history and Ben had both at the same time. I can't stand Ben and I can't stand the Steelers but to say he hasn't had any weapons (and don't forget about his TE's among the best in the league at the time) that way of thinking is just plain funny.

So having a Hall of Fame RB and a Hall of Fame WR is considered less?

 

Can I remind you that the Bengals have never had a Hall of Fame RB or a Hall of Fame WR at the same time much less ever in their franchise history and Ben had both at the same time. I can't stand Ben and I can't stand the Steelers but to say he hasn't had any weapons (and don't forget about his TE's among the best in the league at the time) that way of thinking is just plain funny.

I love me some Hellbird, but you argue in circles worse than any ex girlfriend in the history of the world. First, we aren't saying that he hasn't occasionally had some weapons, had Bettis when he was a shell of himself, then who? Go ahead, google that list. He had Hines, and he was fantastic, but never a primary focus of opposing defenses. And for the record, when did we start comparing them to Bengals teams? Actually, I may have misspoken, you argue via tangents.

 

Ben has been sacked more than the produce at Krogers, yet still does his thing. Some of those are on him, but most of those are because the OL has been junk. I think the point was he never had an elite receiver. I'd also argue that Ben made Hines more than vice versa if he's your only argument.