I don't get what leverage these employees have. Let's be honest. It's not high-skilled labor so....is their leverage simply a lack of people that want that job?

Wasn't same said about Kentucky coal miners at one time?

Wasn't same said about Kentucky coal miners at one time?

 

Interesting comparison. :popcorn:

 

Before my time here, but I will be interested in the discussion. My initial thought is that the risk and conditions of the jobs are very different, but I can't comment on the required skills.

Wasn't same said about Kentucky coal miners at one time?

 

By who ?

Wasn't same said about Kentucky coal miners at one time?

 

I think it's debatable if the two actually match up as a true comparison...I don't think they do...but interesting angle. Some similarities for sure.

I also saw some ATM looking type of machines McDonalds was testing where you place your order with, kind of like a kiosk.

 

Keep complaining McDonalds workers, you will soon be replaced by machines.

There is a global chain of Italian restaurants called Vapiano, which hand you a card when you enter the restaurant. You then get in a line to wait for a chef to prepare your pasta dish to order as you stand and watch. You swipe your card for each item that you order. There is no wait staff, only a few people busing the tables. The food is great and very affordable considering the quality. When you check out, you hand the cashier your card and cash or a credit card.

 

Vapiano restaurants do a great business in this area and there is no reason that many other restaurants would not eliminate their waiters and waitresses if they begin losing money because of soaring labor costs. In fact, there is no reason that a lower end chain could not eliminate all but one person to clear and clean tables by having customers eat from compostable plates with biodegradable utensils, which they drop in bins on their wait to the door.

 

The models to severely reduce labor costs are already in place. The idiots who are protesting for higher starting wages in fast food restaurants will really not be happy with what success will look like for them.

Wasn't same said about Kentucky coal miners at one time?

Excellent point! Mechanization in the mining industry has sharply reduced the number of coal miners needed to produce far more coal than could be mined manually. The advocates for large minimum wage hikes are hastening the day when there will be very few fast food jobs available, while the amount of fast food consumed will continue to increase.

 

Robots have arrived and they are not yet capable of protesting for any wages.

I can see the next complaint about this issue already. College grads are going to be blamed for creating machines that put unskilled laborers out of work. Just not fair!

The models to severely reduce labor costs are already in place. The idiots who are protesting for higher starting wages in fast food restaurants will really not be happy with what success will look like for them.

Your classist slip is showing. Were the coal miners in Kentucky who organized collectively many decades ago also "idiots"?

 

Speaking of robots and "success," etc., food automats were introduced in New York City in 1912.

I find it hysterical that they believe they deserve the same pay as some entry level positions for college grads .

Your logic is flawed. I understand that college grads are having a tough time finding entry-level jobs that pay well. Went through same with my kids a few years back. Don't understand, though, why this economic phenomenon should disqualify hard-working food service workers from seeking a better wage through collective means.

Speaking of robots and "success," etc., food automats were introduced in New York City in 1912.

1912 called and want their technology back.

 

You think, just maybe, technology is possibly leaps and bounds ahead of 1912?

Your classist slip is showing. Were the coal miners in Kentucky who organized collectively many decades ago also "idiots"?

 

Speaking of robots and "success," etc., food automats were introduced in New York City in 1912.

Coal mining was a very dangerous job when workers began organizing unions, and it is still a dangerous occupation. People working in dangerous jobs deserve to be better compensated for their labor than people working in safe, unskilled jobs. Yet, soaring labor costs in the mining industry provided incentive to companies to develop equipment that would reduce the need for human workers.

 

If you think that an automat is equivalent to a robot capable of flipping burgers, then I don't have the time to bring your knowledge base up to date.

 

Fast food workers are among the most replaceable workers in the world and that is why they are not paid higher hourly rates. It is also why anybody who is working in such a position that has no higher aspiration in life but expects more money for his work is an idiot.

1912 called and want their technology back.

 

You think, just maybe, technology is possibly leaps and bounds ahead of 1912?

You missed my point. Owners of fast-food places have been in the process of automating for the past century. Hardly a recent phenomenon. Yet the vast majority of these joints today remain labor-intensive. How come? Because Joe Public likes his Big Macs fresh, not made in China 48 hours ago and sitting under a heat lamp. One of the reasons Starbucks gets away with charging $4 for a vanilla latte is that the patron sees the drink being made by a person.

 

Seattle proved that $15 an hour is possible.

 

If you think that an automat is equivalent to a robot capable of flipping burgers, then I don't have the time to bring your knowledge base up to date.

You missed my point. Owners of fast-food places have been in the process of automating for the past century. Hardly a recent phenomenon. Yet the vast majority of these joints today remain labor-intensive. How come? Because Joe Public likes his Big Macs fresh, not made in China 48 hours ago and sitting under a heat lamp. One of the reasons Starbucks gets away with charging $4 for a vanilla latte is that the patron sees the drink being made by a person.

 

Seattle proved that $15 an hour is possible.

 

$15 an hour may be possible but should we arbitrarily set it where we want? I believe the market will always set what is an appropriate wage for a position based on what skills, experience, etc. are required to complete it. Unless you are a manager at McDonalds or these other fast food chains you should know that these types of positions are not and should not be career positions. They are stepping stones to other ones.

 

Why should we pay someone $15 for a job that requires almost zero skills and experience over other positions that do require it? I'll give you an example, Pharmacy technicians are a job that requires plenty of knowledge, people skills, knowledge of insurance companies, drugs, etc. and they are paid anywhere from $11 to $20 an hour based on how experienced they are. Pharmacy interns, which are a slight upgrade from technicians, often get a starting salary of $14/hour. Are you tell me that these people should get paid more than these individuals?

 

Also to rise the minimum wage like they did in Seattle brings a myriad of other problems as well. If you raise the wage to $15/hour, its a boon to these low skill positions like those at McDonalds but what about other positions that are already making more than they are but are just under $15? How much of a raise should they get? You really can't put them at the same starting salary because many positions, like pharmacy technicians, require numerous more skills than the other. So how much should their pay increase in response? Not only that but you'll also anger others who are already making more than $15/hour because that means it wouldn't affect them and so how much should you increase those individuals?

 

Too many problems come from this type of stuff. Let the market set the value and let the rest sort it out on its own.

Random thoughts:

We have reached a time when current minimum wage jobs do not support a family, and we consider the people who work minimum wage jobs as doing work worth a higher wage.

 

However, we expect to have our orders filled with accuracy and the transactions completed with a cheerful attitude and a smile. We are quick to complain when our demands are not met or our order is not correct. We don't want people to live off our tax dollars, but we don't want our businesses to be compelled to pay them a wage that will meet the basic needs of a family without supplemental, tax payer dollars.

 

We have reached a time where we feel a minimum wage worker can just improve their fortune by either finding another job or getting an education. But we bemoan the costs of education and tell people they can work minimum wage jobs to pay those expenses.

 

Quite a crossroads we're at.