August 27, 201412 yr No, I don't see a problem if a dept uses 6 officers to serve some of their warrants if they feel they need to use that many. Excessive? What is excessive about it? I mean when I think of excessive I'm thinking of it in terms of excessive force, not in numbers. Just because 6 officers are serving a warrant doesn't mean each of them get to kick the suspect in the nuts before they walk him out. I think maybe ....2,000 officers serving a warrant might be too much, but 6, nope. If it gets them all home safe to their families after work then I say it was successful. We just have different opinions on the matter. IMO, if you need six officers to safely execute the vast majority of "routine" warrants, then I question the training of that particular department.
August 27, 201412 yr Author We just have different opinions on the matter. IMO, if you need six officers to safely execute the vast majority of "routine" warrants, then I question the training of that particular department. No you don't need six for the Majority of Warrants, but people shouldn't get bent out of shape when 6 or more are used. Also the more officers on scene these days the less apt one is to go overboard...it is safer for all.
August 27, 201412 yr The thing is, no one knows what is going through the mind of the person the police are stopping, or those who are being served warrants, then person could have done something else that is a felony and they think it's for that crime and not a misdemeanor or something else that is minor, you simply do not know. There is no such thing as "routine" stop or confrontation.
August 27, 201412 yr It happens on "Cops" all the time. Police think they are pulling someone over for a routine stop and the suspect takes off or ends up doing something else stupid. All because they knew they had a warrant. You just never know what you are going to encounter when you wake up each morning. I say the more the better when it comes to police officers patrolling together or serving warrants together. Safety in numbers.
August 27, 201412 yr Well for one, I never said a group of more than two officers is a SWAT team. It matters to me because the extra officers could be used for other purposes. It also matters to me because IMO, the more officers there are, the more likelihood there is of excessive force. You really don't see an issue with SIX officers going to execute a misdemeanor warrant? That doesn't seem excessive to you? If it doesn't, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Anything at all to support your theory or is it just your opinion?
August 27, 201412 yr Author Police saftey does not trump the general public. Do we have to go over this again ? Example after example has been posted of either a swat strike gone wrong or used in a non violent crime . Any murder of a police officer is sad and terrible. But we can't keep adding risk on the general public . My question is does Jumper_Dad now think swat should be used in all situations? If so that is not only insane but without logic. No and I never said they should be used in all situations, just pointing out that there are no "Routine" arrest and that the use of more than 1 or 2 officers can be needed at any time.
August 27, 201412 yr Anything at all to support your theory or is it just your opinion? No, I should have put that. Just my opinion, and not even really sure why I think that, to be honest. Maybe just human nature, and the pack mentality that can occur with groups of people.
August 27, 201412 yr Again, I wonder why the officer called for backup as mentioned in the original news article. It seems like he knew there was some type of risk past just serving a warrant. As a native of San Antonio, I can tell you that the south and east side of towns have some very rough parts. That may be overly stereotypical to say, but it's also not like the place is Alamo Heights or some neighborhood on the north side that is full of picket fences and doesn't have a very high crime rate. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if his 'graffiti' crime wasn't for painting some kind of Bansky mural with an artistic message.
August 27, 201412 yr Here's a ruling that came out this week where the US Court of Appeals denied a police force's motion to grant them immunity from a lawsuit after a 2008 raid left a bystander dead and the subject of the warrant wounded. The raid was carried out when an exotic dancer tipped of police that the homeowner had some cocaine. The team busted down the door, threw flashbangs, hit the homeowner with a rifle butt and shot his friend 6 times as they watched television. Only a small amount of drugs (not enough to be considered for resale) and no guns were found. 2 officers expressed reservations about the amount of force being used to serve the warrant before the raid. This ruling affirms a court ruling that the police responded with inappropriate and unnecessary force given the nature of the warrant. This ruling will likely be referenced in other lawsuits of a similar nature now that a precedent had been set and affirmed by an appeals court. The police department had previously offered the plaintiff $3.5 million to settle the case and he refused. It will likely cost them much more now. Court: Cops can?t claim immunity after SWAT team fatally shot man while looking for cocaine
August 27, 201412 yr Here's a ruling that came out this week where the US Court of Appeals denied a police force's motion to grant them immunity from a lawsuit after a 2008 raid left a bystander dead and the subject of the warrant wounded. The raid was carried out when an exotic dancer tipped of police that the homeowner had some cocaine. The team busted down the door, threw flashbangs, hit the homeowner with a rifle butt and shot his friend 6 times as they watched television. Only a small amount of drugs (not enough to be considered for resale) and no guns were found. 2 officers expressed reservations about the amount of force being used to serve the warrant before the raid. This ruling affirms a court ruling that the police responded with inappropriate and unnecessary force given the nature of the warrant. This ruling will likely be referenced in other lawsuits of a similar nature now that a precedent had been set and affirmed by an appeals court. The police department had previously offered the plaintiff $3.5 million to settle the case and he refused. It will likely cost them much more now. Court: Cops can?t claim immunity after SWAT team fatally shot man while looking for cocaine And this is ONE incident. Of the millions, and yes I mean millions, of warrants served each year, there will be an anomaly or two. This doesn't excuse them, it's just not routine. To say otherwise is just not being truthful.
August 27, 201412 yr We just have different opinions on the matter. IMO, if you need six officers to safely execute the vast majority of "routine" warrants, then I question the training of that particular department. Sounds like to me the training is excellent if they all get to go home at the end of the day. Again I don't know of any depts that use 6 officers on every warrant but if you say it is so I will take your word for it. I know the depts I work with don't.
August 27, 201412 yr And this is ONE incident. Of the millions, and yes I mean millions, of warrants served each year, there will be an anomaly or two. This doesn't excuse them, it's just not routine. To say otherwise is just not being truthful. The point that the court made with this ruling is that they view that type of force being used to serve that type of warrant as being excessive, thus they are not immune from lawsuits when a situation like that goes bad. I'd say this will have an impact as to when SWAT/SRT is used to serve warrants.
August 28, 201412 yr The point that the court made with this ruling is that they view that type of force being used to serve that type of warrant as being excessive, thus they are not immune from lawsuits when a situation like that goes bad. I'd say this will have an impact as to when SWAT/SRT is used to serve warrants. I doubt it. The vast majority of warrants aren't served by SWAT/SRT teams. They just aren't. That was one lawsuit. It will be appealed and there won't be a definitive answer for years.
August 28, 201412 yr I doubt it. The vast majority of warrants aren't served by SWAT/SRT teams. They just aren't. That was one lawsuit. It will be appealed and there won't be a definitive answer for years. I would say overall very few are served by a swat team.
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