Just like any crime, there are unnamed victims. It seems that most want pity for the players at the offending school that were not involved, but what about the players at the schools that were cheated out of a win, a district championship, a regional championship or a state championship? Those players are victims of those adults and athletes as well. Do those victims deserve some justice?

 

This was more in line with my way of thinking. A team that is found guilty of Blatant Over the Top Cheating may get wins stripped, taken away from them as they should but that In No Way helps or make things right with kids from other teams that were cheated out of a Win by a team beating them using illegal players that no question were the dominate factor in their team advancing.

Players at other schools that did not advance, only from doing things the right way, working hard all season to go as far in postseason as possible all to have it taken away from them by illegal means. What fairness is it to these kids ? The State cannot go back, replay the games lost. Just knowing that they were done wrong but still lost, can't get it back seems awfully empty.

When a school has over and over again for years, in one case I know of up to 12 years of no regard for rules, regulations and only for themselves.....in a case like this I could see a "death penalty" imposed to be the right thing to do. When someone does wrong, more than just one pays for it and there imo should be penalties strong enough (In the worst cases) that others will see what price that there is to pay. Not just some wins taken away or a few games in one season they are ruled ineligible to play.

Another scenario that hasn't been mentioned is that the community of the school in violation just may request / demand that a sport be shut down internally for a specified number of games, seasons or possibly permanently. I know a couple of people / parents in a school system that are thinking of that, cleaning house on ALL Administration, ALL School Board members.

That's jmo though, I have no say or do I want any say in the matter other than giving an opinion.

This was more in line with my way of thinking. A team that is found guilty of Blatant Over the Top Cheating may get wins stripped' date=' taken away from them as they should but that In No Way helps or make things right with kids from other teams that were cheated out of a Win by a team beating them using illegal players that no question were the dominate factor in their team advancing. Players at other schools that did not advance, only from doing things the right way, working hard all season to go as far in postseason as possible all to have it taken away from them by illegal means. What fairness is it to these kids ? The State cannot go back, replay the games lost. Just knowing that they were done wrong but still lost, can't get it back seems awfully empty. When a school has over and over again for years, in one case I know of up to 12 years of no regard for rules, regulations and only for themselves.....in a case like this I could see a "death penalty" imposed to be the right thing to do. When someone does wrong, more than just one pays for it and there imo should be penalties strong enough (In the worst cases) that others will see what price that there is to pay. Not just some wins taken away or a few games in one season they are ruled ineligible to play. Another scenario that hasn't been mentioned is that the community of the school in violation just may request / demand that a sport be shut down internally for a specified number of games, seasons or possibly permanently. I know a couple of people / parents in a school system that are thinking of that, cleaning house on ALL Administration, ALL School Board members. That's jmo though, I have no say or do I want any say in the matter other than giving an opinion.[/quote']

 

I agree to your thinking and opinion as well oldrambler. Twelve years is ridiculous. It's a high school sport. Don't use kids for your money and fame you may receive.

I agree to your thinking and opinion as well oldrambler. Twelve years is ridiculous. It's a high school sport. Don't use kids for your money and fame you may receive.

 

This team was not penalized for 12 years, have been investigated for at least 3 of the last 4 years (that I know of, has been reported) on several accusations, violations. All started around 2002, 03' and have been doing it on and off for that long. The last 5 years or more have been consistent with it and other violations alleged and / or proven relating to the out/state players.....Housing, jobs to family, transportation, teaching hires, etc., etc..

I'm just saying that if a player lies, gives a false address, or excepts something that he shouldn't he knows right from wrong and needs to learn a hard less.

 

Now, are the adults the most guilty? Of course, but there is some blame for the player as well.

 

These players for the most part are minors. The blame goes on the parent. They're not the ones filling out all that paperwork. Parents ultimately make these decisions for the most part.

Banning of the Head Coach by the KHSAA

Banning/Suspensions of Guilty Assistant Coaches

Banning of the AD by the KHSAA

Individual Ineligibility for Athletes Who Knowingly Broke the Rule. (ie Illegal Transfer, Impermissible Benefits, Illegal Participation)

 

You can't directly punish the other kids or the school for the actions of others, but a ban from ever being affiliated with a KHSAA program... and the proper enforcement of said ban.... would get the message across.

Seeing the penalties given to Cordia and the discussion in the Fairview Investigation thread, I have to ask...Should the Death Penalty ever be given to a HS Program?

 

What about the kids that are just coming into the program, is it fair to them?

 

What about returning players, who transferring is not a viable option for them, is it fair to them?

 

Ultimately adults made the decisions and broke the rules, why should 13 to 18 year old kids be penalized?

I have no problem with giving a high school the death penalty. The KHSAA can do what they did in the Cordia case and allow those players at the school to transfer to other schools to play.

 

I think without the threat of a death penalty some programs won't care as much if they get caught cheating knowing the program will be able to continue to compete.

I believe that in the Cordia and Fairview decisions it is the attitude of belligerence with which the violations were conducted that brought about those penalties. These programs dared KHSAA to take action.

 

That being said, there are many of us deeply frustrated with the lack of consistency of rulings as well as the inclination to investigate by KHSAA. There are so many ways to circumvent rules and leverage loopholes that if acting intelligently, a program could accomplish the same ends as those with egregious violations.How about schools that have more influence with KHSAA than others because their boosters have server with KHSAA? Do you ever wonder why there is a transfer exemption for schools having dormitories on site? Or .why do recruiting rules not apply to middle school athletes?

I would think banning the coaches and administrators involved in violations would be a start. Then maybe assign some one from the KHSAA to personally monitor the program and verify eligibility of students, would be a start.

 

Maybe if sanctions could be tied to teaching credentials/certification some how also.

 

I just think all penalties need to begin and end with the adults.

 

This....

 

Does anybody remember and know why Dudley Hilton left Bell County for 2 years to coach Bourbon County? And then get the Bell County job back and retire from. What was the deal there? Or was it just a coincidence he wanted change? Something didn't add up there IMO! I don't know, maybe I'm just thinking way too far into something that isn't there.

I have no problem with giving a high school the death penalty. The KHSAA can do what they did in the Cordia case and allow those players at the school to transfer to other schools to play.

 

I think without the threat of a death penalty some programs won't care as much if they get caught cheating knowing the program will be able to continue to compete.

 

What if the school is Crittenden County? Assume that 7 or 8 kids live on the far Northwest part of the county... that is a loooong drive to play football at Trigg or Caldwell County. You are still punishing the kids in this instance and making it a hardship on their families. You are asking a teenager to drive substantial distances each day, or you are asking the parents to have to either drive them...or pick up and move.

 

I do agree with you to an extent that these kids should be given that option...but at the same time the school they live in and have attended with their friends should provide an option to play football and compete as well.

 

In the case of Cordia it is a little different.. most... if not all... of the kids at Cordia have chosen to be there. In the vast majority of schools though the kids are there because they essentially have to be there.

I don't believe you should ever use the death penalty in HS. Punish the coaches/AD as applicable and disqualify any students but don't stop the program. Too many kids would be impacted by a few bad apples.

Ban post season play and let kids play a regular season.

 

I am with you in thinking this should be the extent of any penalty towards an innocent kid. Coaches, administrators, etc. are fair game; but, high school sports is not a big business like the NCAA. Life lessons, accountability, health, and fun is supposed to be part of the experience. Do not strip that.

So Ram under your scenario as Czar of the KHSAA what would you do?

I'll tell you the same thing that I tell everyone I supervise: You don't want me running things.

 

I would make a terrible example of the first school that is found to be cheating and I would do the same thing to every other school found cheating until every school's number one priority is not do anything wrong.

I have no problem with giving a high school the death penalty. The KHSAA can do what they did in the Cordia case and allow those players at the school to transfer to other schools to play.

I think without the threat of a death penalty some programs won't care as much if they get caught cheating knowing the program will be able to continue to compete.

 

They would care if they (the coaches/AD involved) could be removed from their position and be barred from contact with this or any other program.

Unlike seemingly every other BGP Poster, I would not have been able to pack up and move to another district if my son's football program had been shut down for a couple of years while he was in high school.

They would care if they (the coaches/AD involved) could be removed from their position and be barred from contact with this or any other program.

 

The ban also pertains to schools who have contact with that coach.

 

Strictly from a complete hypothetical standpoint.... let's say David Wirth gets a serious infraction at CovCath and is banned by the KHSAA yet still lands a gig as the Offensive Coordinator at LaSalle in Cincy. If Dixie Heights tries to schedule LaSalle the KHSAA will automatically count that as an illegal game and a forfeit by Dixie Heights and omit any stats gained. Dixie Heights could also face punishment for scheduling an illegal non-sanctioned game. If Boone County scrimmages LaSalle in any capacity it will be deemed an illegal scrimmage and subject to fines and punishment. Same goes for schools where the AD is employed.

 

Essentially if you knowingly break the rules to an extreme level you become toxic inside the State of Kentucky.

 

I think this would send shock waves and a scare that would definitely make people think long and hard about breaking the rules.