I haven't finished my degree, and I make more than AT LEAST five friends who have a college degree... Two of them are still serving tables, a year or more after graduation. I have a better paying job with great benefits, and two weeks of vacation. I still want to finish my degree at some point, but I'm not in a huge hurry...

I recently had this very discussion with my younger brother. He is a freshman in college and came to me for a little advice.

 

My advice was to go to school for 2-3 years in some type of trade, or go to school for 5-7 years and make great money behind a desk.

I'll never understand racking up $30,000 plus in debt for a job that pays 30 to 40 thousand a year. Just doesn't add up to me.

He decided to go into nursing and is doing great. To my surprise, he also decided to stay at home and go to a local college rather than UK. The money he is saving on food and housing alone will save him thousands in the long run.

 

I went to trade school and it's worked out perfectly. Finished school with 3500 dollars in student loans (worked nights through school to pay for as much as I could) and haven't had a job yet where I made less that $75000 a year.

I'm not sured how much more a degree would make you skilled than a kid w/ 4 years training in your system? Companies now are hiring these kids out of college who have the ability to think, but lack focus. They are 22, 23 years-old and need to be reprogrammed. Many kids would be almost as qualified if they joined the company straight out of high school and were trained from the get go. Further, they could continue their education w/ or w/out a company offered incentive plan and tuition reimbursement to achieve higher levels of education. At least their studies would be more focused. I went to college right out of high school, majored in business, graduated four years later and still wasn't sure what skills I really had, and how they translated. Once I took awhile off and focused on what I wanted to do, it made law school more sufferable b/c I was looking at a certain area that related to what I did every day. I became engaged.

 

 

I agree completely. I feel like the degree often times puts you at the front of the line but I've met plenty of folks that had the degree but not a lot of the skills or knowledge thought to be accompanied with it. On the other hand I'm working with a guy right now that due to circumstances didn't go to college and is still getting a shot at what good be a really good career for him. I have no doubt if he had gone to college the young man would've been more than capable of carrying a 4.0. He's highly intelligent and extremely motivated, the only thing he's missing is that piece of paper that now often times costs 40k+. Furthermore it doesn't help his cause that he graduated from a high school in Kentucky that has some of the worst testing scores each year in the state but you wouldn't think that talking to him for half an hour.

Depends on alternatives. A good trade school certificate can earn you as much, or more, than many college degrees and job prospects can also be better. The averages used can be very misleading.

 

Correct. We can't speak in generalities about degrees and incomes. A machinist at Mazak averages $72k per year and Mazak probably paid for his required training.

The college you go to is the most overrated aspect of this. A liberal arts degree at a small private college or university will accrue debt and the odds are not real great that you will get a great ROI. A good state university will get you in the majority of fields with less debt and about the same paying professions. The hardest part of guiding kids to post secondary education as a lifetime educator were the parents. Many, many parents just do not understand that a certified career tech center degree is much cheaper and can have a great ROI for their kids. The stigma of Career Tech schools still exist in many areas of the country. That being a dumping ground for kids that were discipline problems or just didn't find anyting relevant in a traditional high school education.

 

There are communities, mostly pressed by the Workforce Cabinets and work force needs that have been able to quell the parents who believe the only route to a successful life as a middle income wage earner is a 4 year college degree. These communities are thriving. Austin, Texas is a major one that has seen the change. As you know it has one of the largest state four year universities in its city and is thriving with channelling and guiding their youth's education in a positive relevant manner with most stigmas being removed.

 

We live in a digital society and many school districts recognize this and are having tremendous difficulty moving in that direction. The two major obstacles are funding due to the dramatic changes in digital solutions almost daily and if a school district purchases those hardware and digital solutions today, it is almost guaranteed to be obsolete in two years, if not quicker. School districts just do not have the resources financially to keep up. The second reason is that too many in the school district work force, teachers and administrators, either will not change or are not comfortable in changing their methods of teaching and learning to students who are digital learners.

 

There are many digital companies that support schools in big ways financially and mentoring support, however, they are spread thin in who to support and how to train the educational staff the way that is needed.

 

School districts that have made the change to the digital age have students bring and use their own digital devices in learning. That cuts the costs immensely and many middle and most high school students have those with them every minute of every day and are extremely competent in using them.

 

The downfall of an educational system will be the inability to meet the two obsatacles I described. It will not be, as many think, the lack of good quality teachers and a student population that doesn't want to learn or can't learn.

 

Students today are smarter as a whole than they have ever been. This is due to their competency to live competently in a global society and their abilities to access the information they need instantly when they need it. Schools should no longer be about, textbooks, rote memory exams, students sitting in rows and listening to lectures the majority of the time, taking culturally biased state accountability tests, etc. They should look dramatically different than they do today. But, trust me, the toughest audience to convince will be the parents that think what made them successful as a student will serve their children the same. That just isn't so.

 

The work force doesn't want a kid who is an expert in Shakespeare, although that doesn't hurt them, as their workers. They want digitally trained, flexible learners, creative thinkers, problem solvers and those that can just plain get along with others, in spite of their differences, to be employed.

 

I do know one thing that I think everyone should and does agree. When my electricity is not functioning, all I care about is thet the person who shows up to correct it is honest, knows what they are doing, and gets it going again. I don't give a suat about what kind of schooling they had other than they are a certified electrician that has been properly trained. Straight "A's" in school never crosses my mind.

 

So, to answer the question, a 4 year degree where you accrue a lot of debt, is not always wise and probably not for most.

I haven't finished my degree, and I make more than AT LEAST five friends who have a college degree... Two of them are still serving tables, a year or more after graduation. I have a better paying job with great benefits, and two weeks of vacation. I still want to finish my degree at some point, but I'm not in a huge hurry...

 

And how many friends with college degrees make more than you? I am assuming you have a lot more than 5 friends? My company would not have hired me without my degree.

What kind of job are you in? What kind of future?

Those without degrees tend to start off making more than that rookie out of college. But give that degree a few years to pay off and look at the results.

I've seen folks get hired just because they have a degree and make more money that those without. Even those without are better workers.

Sometimes the paper seems useless, but in the long run it pays off.

I recently had this very discussion with my younger brother. He is a freshman in college and came to me for a little advice.

 

My advice was to go to school for 2-3 years in some type of trade, or go to school for 5-7 years and make great money behind a desk.

I'll never understand racking up $30,000 plus in debt for a job that pays 30 to 40 thousand a year. Just doesn't add up to me.

He decided to go into nursing and is doing great. To my surprise, he also decided to stay at home and go to a local college rather than UK. The money he is saving on food and housing alone will save him thousands in the long run.

 

I went to trade school and it's worked out perfectly. Finished school with 3500 dollars in student loans (worked nights through school to pay for as much as I could) and haven't had a job yet where I made less that $75000 a year.

 

Love trade schools as a great option! What do you do for a living?

And how many friends with college degrees make more than you? I am assuming you have a lot more than 5 friends? My company would not have hired me without my degree.

What kind of job are you in? What kind of future?

Those without degrees tend to start off making more than that rookie out of college. But give that degree a few years to pay off and look at the results.

I've seen folks get hired just because they have a degree and make more money that those without. Even those without are better workers.

Sometimes the paper seems useless, but in the long run it pays off.

 

I never said a degree is useless, that's obviously not the case. But it's not as important to everybody as some make it seem. Of course I have a few friends that make more than me, but that will be the case in everyone's life, regardless of education level. I am in logistics and warehousing, and outside of becoming an industrial engineer, no degree would really help my situation. Like I said before, I want to finish my degree, but it's just not a necessity for me at this point.

A major problem is that all universities want to be 'liberal arts' colleges in terms of 'experience'. They want you to take lots of electives that have nothing to do with your chosen field of study/profession and worse - more and more they are insisting you stay in expensive dorms or on-campus housing.

 

Cost of college now is at least 4x what they were in the mid-80s. But are starting salaries 4x? Not even close.

A major problem is that all universities want to be 'liberal arts' colleges in terms of 'experience'. They want you to take lots of electives that have nothing to do with your chosen field of study/profession and worse - more and more they are insisting you stay in expensive dorms or on-campus housing.

 

Cost of college now is at least 4x what they were in the mid-80s. But are starting salaries 4x? Not even close.

 

I agree this is a big issue as well. I shouldn't have to take 40 hours of electives that have NOTHING to do with my degree path. I should be able to choose to take those courses if I want, but it shouldn't be mandatory.

Very interesting thread. Here are my random thoughts:

 

--Like it or not, the sheepskin gets you in the door. Period.

--Guide your kids to find their path to the sheepskin with the least amount of debt as possible.

--Love the trade school option but I don't know enough about it. It will most likely be the path for one of mine.

We push way to many people towards college that would be better served elsewhere (trades, the military, etc.). I still believe that college is a luxury, not a necessity, and definitely not an entitlement. That said I was very lucky many moons ago to have a skill that earned a full scholarship for me. Trust me I put in the equivalent of a full time job while at the same time dealing with classes and studying. I have very little sympathy for someone who says they CAN'T work to pay for school.

 

On a tangent, there are WAY to many useless majors. Some people major in some esoteric discipline and then seem surprised when they can't find jobs when they graduate.

EKU is jacking up summer class rates. It appears they are trying to discourage the 'sprint' style students who can get it done in less than 3 years with summer classes. Or they could be reacting to the anticipated budget cuts from the state.

One more comment on college degrees. I am all for finding your passion and doing what you love. But I don't think that is the best advice for college degrees. Get a degree in a field where you can get a good job have opportunities. Then, create the life you love.

We push way to many people towards college that would be better served elsewhere (trades, the military, etc.). I still believe that college is a luxury, not a necessity, and definitely not an entitlement. That said I was very lucky many moons ago to have a skill that earned a full scholarship for me. Trust me I put in the equivalent of a full time job while at the same time dealing with classes and studying. I have very little sympathy for someone who says they CAN'T work to pay for school.

 

On a tangent, there are WAY to many useless majors. Some people major in some esoteric discipline and then seem surprised when they can't find jobs when they graduate.

 

YES!!! That's exactly what I'm saying.