You watched it, do you think they should have run the ball more, in the 4th?

 

Here are the stats from the second half.

 

Third quarter, Bengals ran 10 offensive plays with 3 being runs. Their pass plays were scramble, sack, sack, incomplete, scramble (fumble), incomplete thrown away under pressure, INT thrown under pressure.

 

When I look there, it is obvious the offensive line got obliterated in that quarter trying to pass protect. Looking at the game log, they could have run it perhaps once or at most twice more in the quarter.

 

Fourth quarter, trailing 20-10 on their first drive with 14:10 left, here is the play sheet from the Bengals website (http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/56160/CIN_Gamebook.pdf):

 

Cincinnati Bengals at 14:16, (1st play from scrimmage 14:10)

1-10-CIN 11 (14:10) G.Bernard right guard to CIN 10 for -1 yards (D.Butler).

2-11-CIN 10 (13:39) (Shotgun) A.Dalton pass short right to A.Green pushed ob at CIN 21 for 11 yards (S.Wright). P15

1-10-CIN 21 (13:12) (Shotgun) G.Bernard left guard to CIN 21 for no gain (J.Johnson).

2-10-CIN 21 (12:38) (Shotgun) A.Dalton pass short left to G.Bernard pushed ob at CIN 34 for 13 yards (R.Marshall). P16

1-10-CIN 34 (12:11) (Shotgun) G.Bernard left tackle to CIN 40 for 6 yards (C.Liuget; M.Ingram).

2-4-CIN 40 (11:38) (Shotgun) A.Dalton pass short right to M.Jones pushed ob at CIN 48 for 8 yards (S.Wright). P17

1-10-CIN 48 (11:15) (Shotgun) A.Dalton pass short middle to G.Bernard to SD 35 for 17 yards (M.Gilchrist; M.Te'o). P18

(10:33) (Shotgun) A.Dalton pass short left intended for T.Eifert INTERCEPTED by M.Ingram at SD 32. M.Ingram to SD 35 for 3 yards

 

So the Bengals had 3 runs and 5 passes on the drive. The runs went for -1, 0 and +6. The passes went for +11 and a 1st down, +13 and a 1st down, +8 and a 1st down, +17 and a 1st down and then the INT.

 

Looking at that play calling, I see only one thing wrong - Dalton threw a terrible INT.

 

The next possession, there was only 8 minutes left and they were down two scores. Yes, perhaps they could have run the ball once or twice. But with that amount of time left and down two scores, it is hard to run it much in the NFL. But I do think they should have worked in a run or two. My biggest gripe on that possession, terrible execution of a no huddle offense. I put that on Dalton and Gruden. Gruden for not having the team better prepared to run no huddle and Dalton for looking confused the majority of the possession.

 

Bottom line - I don't think there was much opportunity for more running plays in the second half and virtually none in the fourth quarter. Those early drives of the second half is where they should have tried to run it a couple more times to see what happens, especially as Dalton scrambled for his life on almost every pass play.

Here are the stats from the second half.

 

Third quarter, Bengals ran 10 offensive plays with 3 being runs. Their pass plays were scramble, sack, sack, incomplete, scramble (fumble), incomplete thrown away under pressure, INT thrown under pressure.

 

When I look there, it is obvious the offensive line got obliterated in that quarter trying to pass protect. Looking at the game log, they could have run it perhaps once or at most twice more in the quarter.

 

Fourth quarter, trailing 20-10 on their first drive with 14:10 left, here is the play sheet from the Bengals website (http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/56160/CIN_Gamebook.pdf):

 

Cincinnati Bengals at 14:16, (1st play from scrimmage 14:10)

1-10-CIN 11 (14:10) G.Bernard right guard to CIN 10 for -1 yards (D.Butler).

2-11-CIN 10 (13:39) (Shotgun) A.Dalton pass short right to A.Green pushed ob at CIN 21 for 11 yards (S.Wright). P15

1-10-CIN 21 (13:12) (Shotgun) G.Bernard left guard to CIN 21 for no gain (J.Johnson).

2-10-CIN 21 (12:38) (Shotgun) A.Dalton pass short left to G.Bernard pushed ob at CIN 34 for 13 yards (R.Marshall). P16

1-10-CIN 34 (12:11) (Shotgun) G.Bernard left tackle to CIN 40 for 6 yards (C.Liuget; M.Ingram).

2-4-CIN 40 (11:38) (Shotgun) A.Dalton pass short right to M.Jones pushed ob at CIN 48 for 8 yards (S.Wright). P17

1-10-CIN 48 (11:15) (Shotgun) A.Dalton pass short middle to G.Bernard to SD 35 for 17 yards (M.Gilchrist; M.Te'o). P18

(10:33) (Shotgun) A.Dalton pass short left intended for T.Eifert INTERCEPTED by M.Ingram at SD 32. M.Ingram to SD 35 for 3 yards

 

So the Bengals had 3 runs and 5 passes on the drive. The runs went for -1, 0 and +6. The passes went for +11 and a 1st down, +13 and a 1st down, +8 and a 1st down, +17 and a 1st down and then the INT.

 

Looking at that play calling, I see only one thing wrong - Dalton threw a terrible INT.

 

The next possession, there was only 8 minutes left and they were down two scores. Yes, perhaps they could have run the ball once or twice. But with that amount of time left and down two scores, it is hard to run it much in the NFL. But I do think they should have worked in a run or two. My biggest gripe on that possession, terrible execution of a no huddle offense. I put that on Dalton and Gruden. Gruden for not having the team better prepared to run no huddle and Dalton for looking confused the majority of the possession.

 

Bottom line - I don't think there was much opportunity for more running plays in the second half and virtually none in the fourth quarter. Those early drives of the second half is where they should have tried to run it a couple more times to see what happens, especially as Dalton scrambled for his life on almost every pass play.

Well, my only thought was that they loaded the box often and brought major pressure which had that been audibled to an appropriate run would have changed that rush (because it only got more intense). And I don't know how much leeway he has to check down to a run in that situation, but it's my opinion that it would have changed the outcome and pressure. But that's just my take.

I can answer that and it's actually a pretty simple answer. It is also the same answer to those that blame AJ instead of Dalton because some say AJ dropped the ball and ignore the fact that it was hit out of his hands by the safety, but I digress.

 

The reason no one is blaming Gio is because Gio is not one that game after game makes big time mistakes. Dalton makes them in just about every game, and it's not just interceptions, it's the throws he makes that leads to interceptions, they are either after he stares down the receiver so the defender can jump the route, or it's him throwing the ball so badly (under-thrown or whatever) that the defender has to be dead not to make the interception. Gio had a fumble...yea it hurt but in the end it didn't cost us anything, shoot the Bengals still were able to kick a FG before the half so all it costs us was 4 points. to say that was a back brekaker or a momentum changer, that couldn't be more wrong.

 

To say it wasn't on Dalton but shouldbe on the whole team...I'll leave you at this. In 3 consecutive possessions in the 3rd quarter (with the Bengals leading I might add) Dalton in all 3 consecutive offensive series turned the ball over. The rest of the team didn't....Andy did and the next thing you know the Bengals are losing and Dalton isn't good enough to come from behind in crunch time. It's all on Dalton.

 

I'm not talking about this season. I'm talking about yesterday. As I stated before they both are not the answer. And I didn't disagree that a lot of blame shouldn't be one Dalton. So idk where you are with that. 2- what math class did you go to that told you Gio fumbling that ball only cost us 4 points just cause they kicked a field goal later? If he doesn't fumble and they score it cost them 7. To say that, that play didn't change the momentum of the game.. Your kidding right? Every analyst, broadcaster, radio personality, all said the same thing. If you don't believe that maybe check Gio's play in the second half. Or maybe the picture of him with his head down pouting on the sideline.

 

As far as green goes I did see the defender swat the ball. You can't tell me that ball shouldn't have been caught. Gio had his swatted to. Does that rectify his fumble?

 

So again I think dalton and Marvin should be gone. Agreed. Is 100% of the blame on them for yesterday? I don't think so

Steven A. Smith and Skip Bayless on First Take both said Marvin should be fired today!!!!!

 

For those that don't watch First Take often, for Stephen A. to call for a coach to be fired is extremely rare.

I'm not talking about this season. I'm talking about yesterday. As I stated before they both are not the answer. And I didn't disagree that a lot of blame shouldn't be one Dalton. So idk where you are with that. 2- what math class did you go to that told you Gio fumbling that ball only cost us 4 points just cause they kicked a field goal later? If he doesn't fumble and they score it cost them 7. To say that, that play didn't change the momentum of the game.. Your kidding right? Every analyst, broadcaster, radio personality, all said the same thing. If you don't believe that maybe check Gio's play in the second half. Or maybe the picture of him with his head down pouting on the sideline.

 

As far as green goes I did see the defender swat the ball. You can't tell me that ball shouldn't have been caught. Gio had his swatted to. Does that rectify his fumble?

 

So again I think dalton and Marvin should be gone. Agreed. Is 100% of the blame on them for yesterday? I don't think so

My math is pretty good. 7-3=4. So it looks like the fumble costs is 4 points because we were able to kick a FG a min later.

 

Not sure where your math education is from but mine is pretty accurate.

My math is pretty good. 7-3=4. So it looks like the fumble costs is 4 points because we were able to kick a FG a min later.

 

Not sure where your math education is from but mine is pretty accurate.

 

Really? So if the score is 0-0. Gio doesnt fumble and we score, its 7-0. A minute later we kick a field goal as you say. It is now 10-0.

 

So.. not saying im a math major but since Gio fumbled and turned the ball over and we didnt score that would make it a 7 point difference..

 

The fact that they kicked a field goal a minute later isn't relevant. Fact is, he fumbled inside the 10, maybe even inside the 5 and im not saying they for sure would have scored, but they have been among the leagues best in the red zone. Pretty easy to see that it cost them 7 points. Unless touchdowns are worth 4 now.

Really? So if the score is 0-0. Gio doesnt fumble and we score, its 7-0. A minute later we kick a field goal as you say. It is now 10-0.

 

So.. not saying im a math major but since Gio fumbled and turned the ball over and we didnt score that would make it a 7 point difference..

 

The fact that they kicked a field goal a minute later isn't relevant. Fact is, he fumbled inside the 10, maybe even inside the 5 and im not saying they for sure would have scored, but they have been among the leagues best in the red zone. Pretty easy to see that it cost them 7 points. Unless touchdowns are worth 4 now.

 

No it's not 10 to 0. Where do you dream that up from?

 

It's the bungals you are talking about. If we were up 7-0 we don't get the ball back where we got it back from because the chargers don't start on the 2 yard line and don't run 3 times trying to run the clock out. They punt and we start probably around our own 20 and as Marvin has done all season when ahead right before the half is sit on the ball and run the clock out.

 

Now with that said let's talk about the facts which you want to ignore. The score wasn't 0-0 and the Chargers did start on the 2 and were stopped in 3 straight plays and only running 20 secs off the clock punted to the Bengals where they got it around midfield. They had time to see if they could get into FG range which they did and kicked a FG. So instead going up 14-7 they went up 10-7. They were still leading at halftime and half of the 3rd qtr yet you want to say Gio is the reason there was a momentum swing....wrong. The momentum swing came at Dalton's hands when the bengals leading (got the lead AFTER Gios fumble) yet in the second half Dalton turned the ball over on 3 consecutive drives to start the 2nd half. At the end of that the chargers are leading. The bengals had 10 plays in the 3rd qtr. all those possessions ending in a Dalton turnover. Yet you say it was Gios fault the momentum swung to Chargers side. I say I want what your smoking.

If we're going to criticize someone else for ignoring facts, let's actually get the fact right....They started on their own 11 yard line, not really all that similar to the 2....

If we're going to criticize someone else for ignoring facts, let's actually get the fact right....They started on their own 11 yard line, not really all that similar to the 2....

 

Sorry the fumble was at the 2. Still same circumstances.

 

So you also think GUI is to blame and that getting a FG after the fumble to take the lead is the reason they lost? Lol. Mine brown must love you and reds lol

For anyone to sit there and blame Gio for the loss makes me really wonder if they even watched the game.

Sorry the fumble was at the 2. Still same circumstances.

 

So you also think GUI is to blame and that getting a FG after the fumble to take the lead is the reason they lost? Lol. Mine brown must love you and reds lol

 

What the hell are you talking about? Show me where I said anything close to that.

 

Did Gio's fumble hurt them? Sure. Did it change the momentum? Somewhat. Was it the reason they lost? Absolutely not. That blame lays on the hands of Dalton, Lewis, and Gruden. I can't understand why Gruden gets such a pass. His play calling is abysmal.

 

Did Gio's fumble hurt them? Sure. Did it change the momentum? Somewhat. Was it the reason they lost? Absolutely not. That blame lays on the hands of Dalton, Lewis, and Gruden. I can't understand why Gruden gets such a pass. His play calling is abysmal.

 

I agree with everything except the momentum thing. I really don't think momentum matters in football, but if it did the fumble was big. However wouldn't they have gotten a huge momentum swing back by getting the 3 and out and a really tough catch giving them that huge end of half FG plus the ball to start the 2nd half?

Sorry the fumble was at the 2. Still same circumstances.

 

So you also think GUI is to blame and that getting a FG after the fumble to take the lead is the reason they lost? Lol. Mine brown must love you and reds lol

 

After the fumble though wasn't SD penalized half the distance on the first play so they ran their next 1st down play from the 6 or 8 yard line leading them to decide not to try to get the 1st down? I think you are correct that the fumble cost them 4 and only 4 points at most.

No it's not 10 to 0. Where do you dream that up from?

 

It's the bungals you are talking about. If we were up 7-0 we don't get the ball back where we got it back from because the chargers don't start on the 2 yard line and don't run 3 times trying to run the clock out. They punt and we start probably around our own 20 and as Marvin has done all season when ahead right before the half is sit on the ball and run the clock out.

 

Now with that said let's talk about the facts which you want to ignore. The score wasn't 0-0 and the Chargers did start on the 2 and were stopped in 3 straight plays and only running 20 secs off the clock punted to the Bengals where they got it around midfield. They had time to see if they could get into FG range which they did and kicked a FG. So instead going up 14-7 they went up 10-7. They were still leading at halftime and half of the 3rd qtr yet you want to say Gio is the reason there was a momentum swing....wrong. The momentum swing came at Dalton's hands when the bengals leading (got the lead AFTER Gios fumble) yet in the second half Dalton turned the ball over on 3 consecutive drives to start the 2nd half. At the end of that the chargers are leading. The bengals had 10 plays in the 3rd qtr. all those possessions ending in a Dalton turnover. Yet you say it was Gios fault the momentum swung to Chargers side. I say I want what your smoking.

 

Just to set the record straight, the Bengals punted on their first drive of the second half.

I agree with everything except the momentum thing. I really don't think momentum matters in football, but if it did the fumble was big. However wouldn't they have gotten a huge momentum swing back by getting the 3 and out and a really tough catch giving them that huge end of half FG plus the ball to start the 2nd half?

 

I agree, but that's why I said somewhat.

 

Also, who's to say without the fumble, the Bengals don't score the TD on the next play, the D holds them to a 3 and out and the offense has the same amount of time to get themselves back into FG range? I know it would've been asking a lot, but it was a possibility.