Here's my thought on it. I know this is talking about middle school, but I'm going to take it a step further, and go back to elementary school too. But, basically it boils down to this...at what point in time do you want to choose your high school varsity athletes? Because when you start taking kids just so that you can have someone your "stars" can practice against, you're setting in motion the perennial benchwarmers' attitude of "why bother?" Sure they may stick with it for a few years, just for the sake of the camaraderie, or the prestige of "being on the team". But, after awhile, it's going to get old. And as they get older and older, there's going to be more an more "distractions" that are going to pull them away from athletics. And that's why you'll see these 6'4" kids walking down the halls of the high school that are not playing basketball. And it's because their growth spurt didn't happen until 8th grade, and by that time they've become bored with the sport because they haven't seen any significant playing time since 2nd grade.

 

Things are completely different than when I was in school 25-30 years ago. There's more competition for kids' time now. And if athletics wants to maintain it's spot as a priority for kids, it's going to have to "give" them something in return. And running wind sprints, or shooting free throws, or being practice fodder for the #1's, just isn't going to cut it anymore. You've got to make them feel involved in something important...and that's the game.

 

And what really hurts, is if you have multiple elementary schools in the same district. Say, for instance, you have three elementary schools...each fielding a 12 member basketball team. When they move to the 6th grade, under a single middle school, now there's 36 kids trying out for maybe 15 spots. So, 21 are going to get cut. That's an awful lot of pressure on the 6th grade coach to properly evaluate talent for the next 6 years. And now, you're going to turn around and whittle that number down even further to just the 6 or 7 "stars" in that grade level who get the bulk of the playing time?

 

I agree that it shouldn't carry over into high school...but, at the lower levels, I think every school district would be better off if it not only got, but kept, more kids involved. And the longer you can do that, the more beneficial it will be at the high school level. JMO.

 

I agree that we want to keep as many kids involved as possible. However, let me ask a few questions.

 

That 6'4" kid walking the halls...did he really have passion for the game at one time or was he just playing because his friends did.

 

If the kid was super passionate about it, should or could the parents have done something to help with his development? (sought out an aau team, got him some training, etc).

 

Why aren't we advocating for the kids that got cut in your scenario? We could make the same argument for those kids as the ones sitting on the bench. Maybe the 6'4" kid was number 36 out of 36.

 

Lastly, what do you tell the middle school kids that have worked their tails off to gain an advantage and "win" a spot and playing time on the team? What message does it send to them...who by the way in the "law of averages" usually does become a key player at the varsity levels. What if they get frustrated and quit because they didn't see any advantage to working harder than the other person. What if they stop working as hard?

Funny, because one could say the uber-competitive playing environment is what the (non-school associated) traveling teams are for. And that the school environment should be what schools are supposed to do best...and that's teach (even if it is on a court or a field).

 

Then I assume you'd want high school sports to be the same way?

 

They are teaching...life lessons. Life isn't all sunshine and rainbows. You must earn everything you get. In fact, that lesson that sports has taught for hundreds of years, is probably the most important lesson one can teach. Learning how to overcome challenges and obstacles. Learning to deal with disappointment. Learning how to reach down and make yourself better. What do you learn from saying everyone plays?

A rule enforcing guaranteed playing time would officially ruin high school sports and club basketball would be here even sooner than spindoc is predicting. And I would have my kid in club basketball faster than you can say spindoc. High school sports would be governed by Upward Bound Basketball.

 

My daughter and many others almost didn't play MS bball this year! She wanted to play with her AAU team instead. Now that the season has started, they are still saying the same thing. They are okay playing with their school buddies, but not really happy with how it's playing out.

Not all coaches are like that. In my son's middle school practice there are 11 kids on the team and when 5 on 5 situations take place the 5 are as even as can be. The starters don't practice against the "fodder" on the court.

 

Agreed. My daughter's team has two top AAU players on it. When they compete in practice, her and the other girl are always matched up opposite eash other. Yes, even in scrimmages. If you're a good coach, you want your kids competing against the best you can put out there.

Agreed. My daughter's team has two top AAU players on it. When they compete in practice, her and the other girl are always matched up opposite eash other. Yes, even in scrimmages. If you're a good coach, you want your kids competing against the best you can put out there.

 

That's the only way the whole team can grow IMO.

Fact is this whole country wants everybody to be a "winner". The truth is that not everyone IS a winner or a star or a superb athlete. The truth is that this whole country is going down the toilet so that "little johnny" doesn't get picked on because he doesn't fit in. Problem is there have been MILLIONS of little johnnies throughout history, and they either toughened up, found out they were better at math than everyone else, or simply became a burden on society. Those are the choices that are made by youth everyday, and have been for centuries. Now we want everyone to be equal, and no one to have the advantage because they bust their butts to do so. Welcome to socialism and the next third world country.

Man, I'm glad everyone's kid decided when they came out of the womb what sport they wanted to play. Seems you have to be that way to get the competitive edge on the other kids. Seriously though, from what I'm reading, is that in order to play at the high school level, you (or more likely your parents) have to get you involved BIG TIME at the very earliest of stages. No wonder some parents (and I'm not singling out anyone here) are bananas at games...they've got more invested in the kid's success than the kid does!

 

I've seen many instances where a "star" player (sometimes maybe two) end up running up and down the court, scoring darn near every single one of their team's points. The other guys are there for defense and maybe rebounding. And, if you want to win the game, then that's what you do. Get it to little Jimmy, and let him score. It's all fine and dandy until four years from now, little Jimmy has moved, or gotten a girlfriend, or had to get a job..and you're left with nothing else in the cupboard.

 

And I've also seen instances where little Jimmy KNOWS he's the star, and goofs off, is late to practice, doesn't hustle as hard during it...and STILL gets the ball, because the coach wants to win. Yes, we can sit here and say, well, then it's on the coach, not the "system" that's encouraging it. But, the fact of the matter is, when we're SOOOO focused on just the winning aspect, we miss out on the bigger picture of trying to improve the rest of the players. And that's all I'm saying. If you want to improve your school's athletics, you need to keep as many kids interested in playing in the first place. But, I will admit, there's not an easy answer to how to go about doing it.

Man, I'm glad everyone's kid decided when they came out of the womb what sport they wanted to play. Seems you have to be that way to get the competitive edge on the other kids. Seriously though, from what I'm reading, is that in order to play at the high school level, you (or more likely your parents) have to get you involved BIG TIME at the very earliest of stages. No wonder some parents (and I'm not singling out anyone here) are bananas at games...they've got more invested in the kid's success than the kid does!

 

Yes. It definitely helps. You won't find many kids playing at the varsity level who participated in tryouts on a whim. Nowadays when kids tryout they are already AAU affiliated in some shape, form or fashion. Just the way it is nowadays.

 

I've seen many instances where a "star" player (sometimes maybe two) end up running up and down the court, scoring darn near every single one of their team's points. The other guys are there for defense and maybe rebounding. And, if you want to win the game, then that's what you do. Get it to little Jimmy, and let him score. It's all fine and dandy until four years from now, little Jimmy has moved, or gotten a girlfriend, or had to get a job..and you're left with nothing else in the cupboard.

 

That means your team was never good if you have to rely on one player.

 

 

 

And I've also seen instances where little Jimmy KNOWS he's the star, and goofs off, is late to practice, doesn't hustle as hard during it...and STILL gets the ball, because the coach wants to win. Yes, we can sit here and say, well, then it's on the coach, not the "system" that's encouraging it. But, the fact of the matter is, when we're SOOOO focused on just the winning aspect, we miss out on the bigger picture of trying to improve the rest of the players. And that's all I'm saying. If you want to improve your school's athletics, you need to keep as many kids interested in playing in the first place. But, I will admit, there's not an easy answer to how to go about doing it.

 

That is the struggle. Getting the whole team to buy in to what he coach is selling and in some cases the star player is the last one to buy in. And that sucks big time.........

Middle School is certainly a transitional period. And from what I've seen (at least on basketball teams) is there are always the 3 or 4 kids that are clearly better than the rest. And there are always 8 or 10 that try out that absolutely don't belong. Pretty much everyone else is pretty even, so filling out the last 8 or 10 spots on a team is tough to do. But even with superb development, only 3 or 4 guys from a middle school team will ever be legitimate varsity contributors. So while it's important for players development to play, you are at the point where the cream is starts to rise to the top. I'm all for everyone playing at the middle school level, but I'm not for equal playing time.

And the schools are teaching the kids that sometimes you just aren't good enough. Just like sometimes you just aren't smart enough to be the valedictorian.

 

I resemble that remark.:wacky:

What message are you sending the kids with talent and are hard workers. No matter how talented you are, or how hard you work to get better. Little Joey that is only there because his dad made him try out, gets your playing time so his feeling, (or his dads) don't get bruised. The bigger the middle school, the more teams they should have.

Here, a few years ago, there was a talented middle school team that the coach only played 6-7 players regularly, 17 on the team. Only 2 of that 6-7 played high school ball.

As well with a second team, a couple players that didn't make the "A" team were 2+ year starters in high school.

So what does all this tell us. IMHO, There is not an easy answer, but I believe you need to develop your best talent.

Fact is this whole country wants everybody to be a "winner". The truth is that not everyone IS a winner or a star or a superb athlete. The truth is that this whole country is going down the toilet so that "little johnny" doesn't get picked on because he doesn't fit in. Problem is there have been MILLIONS of little johnnies throughout history, and they either toughened up, found out they were better at math than everyone else, or simply became a burden on society. Those are the choices that are made by youth everyday, and have been for centuries. Now we want everyone to be equal, and no one to have the advantage because they bust their butts to do so. Welcome to socialism and the next third world country.

 

I am as competitive as they come. I have two girls that are good athletes. I had a boy on my thrid child. Yay, finally a boy right? Well he is very little for his age and not super interested in sports (like his older sisters). However, he is smart. He's in the 3rd grade and plays sports now. He enjoys playing sports, but doesn't put any extra time into it at all. He's very average. He came to me last night and said "Dad, the spelling bee is coming up. I want to win the state!". So when I haven't been typing on BGP today, I have been looking up spelling bee words and training techniques for spelling bees.

 

Kids adapt and have the opportunity to do whatever they want, even if they aren't good athletes, get cut or never get in a game. It's life! People try things and move on if its not for them. Should I make a motion that my kid should be on the acedemic team? "Well Mr RCC9, your kid is failing every class" (not really). Should I push the issue and say "Well he deserves and opportunity just like the rest of the kids!. Or lets say he plays an instrument and he sucks. You don't think the others in the band would ridicule and make fun of him to the point where he gives up the instrument? It happens in every walk of life and Middle School is not too early to start learning that!!! If we accept that now, in 10 years we'll be having this same exact conversation about high school sports.

 

I look at it this way. If you let all the kids make the team and have fair or mandatory playing time, it's like American Idol when the bad singers show up and get ridiculed by the judges for their singing. What do most of those adults say, "My friends and family have always told me I was a good singer!" and they leave the stage crying. Those people were sheltered and told what they wanted to hear so their feelings didn't get hurt. They weren't told no. They were prepared for no.

 

Same thing in this scenario!

Given the positive results I've seen in tht FTJFL I am absolutely for it. Split time up until 6th grade, then at least a quarter after that up to 8th grade. Keep the kids involved as they're developing and you might just find a decent player or two that would have otherwise been missed. Meanwhile, it's fun for everyone.

Middle school is preparation for high school IMO. Middle school is not Rec League. It is not a perfect world and while it would be nice for everyone to play it isn't always going to happen. Winning is and should be emphasized because the score is kept. Middle school teams that I know of will have tryouts and cut people. My son's middle school lets players and parents know playing time isn't guaranteed. If kids are going to be cut in tryouts and told they will not be a part of the team then playing time isn't nor should it be guaranteed. Most middle school teams have 10-15 kids in each class(6th,7th and 8th). Maybe 5 of those kids will still be playing when they are seniors. Some people's careers end in middle school. Some end in high school. Some in college. Either way, it is the natural order of life and it begins in middle school.

 

C'est la vie........

 

Don't disagree with anything you said for the most part. And if one believes that middle school sports is only preparation for high school sports, then how you described it is the only way you can approach it. I'm just not sure it's the ONLY way to look at it though. It's a tough question no doubt, and for a coach who tries to walk the line of being competitive and trying to get everyone (who is deserving) playing time in games...lets just say it's a very delicate balancing act.

 

Let me ask you your opinion on something PP, and anyone else who wants to chime in.

 

Situation: 7th grade ms basketball team. Overall team/class is fairly down in talent, struggle to win games, struggle at the pg and C spots especially. Have 16 kids on the 7th grade team. Coach brings in the 6th grade pg and C to play up on 7th grade team, and though they might not start (yet), they get the starter minutes. Yes, the 6th graders are better than the 7th graders at those two spots. Yes, tey make the team a little better, but still not really winning games. Question: Should the 6th graders play up or should the 7th grade coach use what he's got and try to develop them?

Man, I'm glad everyone's kid decided when they came out of the womb what sport they wanted to play. Seems you have to be that way to get the competitive edge on the other kids. Seriously though, from what I'm reading, is that in order to play at the high school level, you (or more likely your parents) have to get you involved BIG TIME at the very earliest of stages. No wonder some parents (and I'm not singling out anyone here) are bananas at games...they've got more invested in the kid's success than the kid does!

 

I've seen many instances where a "star" player (sometimes maybe two) end up running up and down the court, scoring darn near every single one of their team's points. The other guys are there for defense and maybe rebounding. And, if you want to win the game, then that's what you do. Get it to little Jimmy, and let him score. It's all fine and dandy until four years from now, little Jimmy has moved, or gotten a girlfriend, or had to get a job..and you're left with nothing else in the cupboard.

 

And I've also seen instances where little Jimmy KNOWS he's the star, and goofs off, is late to practice, doesn't hustle as hard during it...and STILL gets the ball, because the coach wants to win. Yes, we can sit here and say, well, then it's on the coach, not the "system" that's encouraging it. But, the fact of the matter is, when we're SOOOO focused on just the winning aspect, we miss out on the bigger picture of trying to improve the rest of the players. And that's all I'm saying. If you want to improve your school's athletics, you need to keep as many kids interested in playing in the first place. But, I will admit, there's not an easy answer to how to go about doing it.

 

I'm just saying that if you want to talk about fair, it's not fair to the kids that did put that effort and time in to get an edge. No one said that you HAD to do those things, but if someone out works the other and does put more time in off the field/court, why would it be fair to them to share time with a kid that did none of that?

 

Let's say you and another person were up for a promotion at work. You went and took extra training. Took on projects well outside of your current expectations. Stayed late and put in extra hours. The other guy showed up everyday, did his role, never took on extra projects and training, went home at quitting time and they give him the job over you. You ask, "why did Johnny get the job". "Well Johnny hasn't had a promotion in awhile and you just got one 2 years ago. It's his turn? How would you feel?

 

It's no doubt sports have gotten extremely more competitive at a younger age. But every parent and kid has options. You can choose to get your kid involved early or not to. Guess what, if you choose not to, your kid will get behind. But it's not the other families fault that your kid got behind. They made a choice (and sacrifice) and so did you. Now they are in middle school and you want it to all be even??? Really??

 

I run an AAU Org. We have a website that you can go to to sign your kids up for a tryout. Just about every fall, we get bomb barded with entries from middle school kids that got cut from their school team. Most of the stories start with "Johnny has played (enter whatever rec league you want here) since first grade. He has always been the star. He is a PG and can dribble and shoot really well. We loves basketball and is extremely disappointed he didn't make the team." I can almost copy and paste that in to every one I get on the site in the fall. My first instinct is to tell them if you're just now looking to get a middle school kid into a competitive situation, you'ver missed the boat. But I don't. And when little Johnny shows up at tryouts, I actually have to protect the little all-star from getting hurt! My point is, you can choose not to get your kid involved competitivly early. You have that option. If you opt out, then you can't complain when your kid is behind!