Let's say I go out tonight to the bar and pound 6 or 7 beers and have 5 shots of whiskey. I take a cab home, and pass out in bed.

 

Now let's say tomorrow night I stay in, trip on some acid while watching some movies, and pass out.

 

Is one of those really that much worse than the other that it should be a crime?

As usual, you fail to acknowledge a valid point that alcohol is often consumed moderation without impairment. Heroin is not. But keep overlooking that point, no matter how many times its made.

 

No, I'm not overlooking it, it just has no validity in the argument.

 

I consume alcohol in excess of moderation from time to time. I don't infringe on others when I do though. If someone does heroin, but doesn't infringe on others, why should that be illegal?

 

What you guys are basically saying is that someone who does any type of drug (outside of pot) is incapable of doing so without infringing on others. I don't at all agree.

Nope. That's not at all what is being said. In comparison to one another, again, alcohol and heroin aren't consumed similarly. No one anywhere said it was automatic that drug addicts had to infringe on others. But to throw that out like its not a factor is beyond ignorant.

Nope. That's not at all what is being said. In comparison to one another, again, alcohol and heroin aren't consumed similarly. No one anywhere said it was automatic that drug addicts had to infringe on others. But to throw that out like its not a factor is beyond ignorant.

 

And again, consumption in moderation means nothing to the topic. It's responsibly consuming the product that matters.

That isn't true. Drugs cause people to infringe upon others. Thefts, assaults, neglecting kids...

Absolutely false. Those people may make those decisions on drugs. But JUST USING DRUGS does not cause someone to infringe on others. Big Macs may make me fat, but McDonald's didn't cause me to be fat.

Does nobody on here believe in free will?

As usual, you fail to acknowledge a valid point that alcohol is often consumed in moderation without impairment. Heroin is not. But keep overlooking that point, no matter how many times its made.

 

Because it's not a good argument. Consuming in moderation and consuming responsibly are two totally different things. I'm actually quite astounded that you don't see the difference and why it is pertinent to this discussion.

 

Also, with tolerance levels I'm sure some people can function on one dose of heroin just as good as others after one beer. I know some REALLY lightweight drinkers who can't go one or two beers until they have a noticeable change in behavior.

 

I have a friend who at one beer you can easily tell he has drank, by two he is probably going to get in trouble. By your moderation logic he can't consume in moderation therefore it needs to be outlawed.

 

However, I have a friend who graduated from college with a 4.0 and got a graduate degree. They did heroin every day throughout this. I'm sure there were times you could tell but for the most part this person was a very high-functioning member of society.

 

I also have a family member who owned a small business and for many years used oxycotin and heroin on a daily basis. It wasn't until the last couple of years that people realized there was a problem. Granted it got bad, but for many years they were able to function just fine on these drugs.

 

Just like these two people I can probably drink a few beers every day and you'd never be able to tell (well maybe if you looked at my gut). However, sometimes I may put back mass quantities over the course of one day and you could easily tell. But, whether or not I have consumed in moderation I am still consuming responsibly.

 

The point is, people have free will to choose how they would like to live and the decisions they make. Heroin use isn't going to skyrocket if made legal. The arguments I have saw right now are weak because the problems exist whether it's legal or not. But as I've said MANY times on here there are countless problems that ONLY exist because the drugs are illegal. I am actually presenting a solution that fixes problems. The naysayers have yet to present anything that comes remotely close to fixing a problem except to shoot-down something because it may make them feel uneasy and/or they don't have a very good understanding of the issue.

 

 

 

P.S. Both of these people have been clean for a long time and I'm quite proud of them. One did it solely through rehab. The other tried it several times and for reasons I still don't know it just clicked one day and they kicked the habit.

Edited July 5, 201313 yr by formerkywrestler

I also know people who have "dabbled" in about every drug imaginable. They never got addicted to anything and were just experimenting, going through a phase, etc. The "dabbling" was typically done in controlled settings and done responsibly.

 

I've held off saying things like this because it's a public setting.

 

I'm sure I'm not alone on here as the only one who has been exposed to drugs and/or people like this and could definitely tell you stories markedly different from the horror stories you read about. I can also share tragic stories involved with drugs -- but I can share plenty of tragic stories dealing with things that are perfectly legal.

 

 

With a Hunter S. Thompson avatar I realize this may not be a shock to some.

I also know people who have "dabbled" in about every drug imaginable. They never got addicted to anything and were just experimenting, going through a phase, etc. The "dabbling" was typically done in controlled settings and done responsibly.

 

I've held off saying things like this because it's a public setting.

 

I'm sure I'm not alone on here as the only one who has been exposed to drugs and/or people like this and could definitely tell you stories markedly different from the horror stories you read about. I can also share tragic stories involved with drugs -- but I can share plenty of tragic stories dealing with things that are perfectly legal.

 

 

With a Hunter S. Thompson avatar I realize this may not be a shock to some.

 

 

:thumb:

Let's say I go out tonight to the bar and pound 6 or 7 beers and have 5 shots of whiskey. I take a cab home, and pass out in bed.

 

Now let's say tomorrow night I stay in, trip on some acid while watching some movies, and pass out.

 

Is one of those really that much worse than the other that it should be a crime?

 

If you don't mind that the acid leave trace in your spinal fluid which will come back to haunt you at some time...hopefully not driving...or anything else where you need to function. I am not anti-alcohol, but it is overused as well, and it kills people...just not as fast as drugs (take out drinking/driving, etc.).

If you don't mind that the acid leave trace in your spinal fluid which will come back to haunt you at some time...hopefully not driving...or anything else where you need to function. I am not anti-alcohol, but it is overused as well, and it kills people...just not as fast as drugs (take out drinking/driving, etc.).

 

Right, but if someone wants to kill themselves or hurt themselves with drugs, they should be allowed to. The government should not be able to tell a person what they can or can't put in their own bodies.

Right, but if someone wants to kill themselves or hurt themselves with drugs, they should be allowed to. The government should not be able to tell a person what they can or can't put in their own bodies.

I agree with you on this 100%!!! Let the drug users have all of the drugs they want, let them OD if they want to.

 

My main issue with drugs isn't necessarily with the drug use but with the related crimes that go with drug use.

• Drug users will stop at nothing to get more drugs.
  
• They will steal from friends, family, neighbors, local businesses and random people on the street to support their habit.
  
• They will kill in some cases to get enough money to buy more drugs.
  
• They will commit other crimes while under the influence of drugs that touch the rest of us in society.
  

 

We as a country need to get tougher with the related crimes not simple possession:

I support community service and no jail time for drug possession, personal use amount.

I support mandatory prison sentences for trafficking.

I support mandatory jail time for all theft cases, as of now nearly all theft cases walk with probation and rarely get revoked upon secondary arrest.

I agree with you on this 100%!!! Let the drug users have all of the drugs they want, let them OD if they want to.

 

My main issue with drugs isn't necessarily with the drug use but with the related crimes that go with drug use.

• Drug users will stop at nothing to get more drugs.
  
• They will steal from friends, family, neighbors, local businesses and random people on the street to support their habit.
  
• They will kill in some cases to get enough money to buy more drugs.
  
• They will commit other crimes while under the influence of drugs that touch the rest of us in society.
  

 

We as a country need to get tougher with the related crimes not simple possession:

I support community service and no jail time for drug possession, personal use amount.

I support mandatory prison sentences for trafficking.

I support mandatory jail time for all theft cases, as of now nearly all theft cases walk with probation and rarely get revoked upon secondary arrest.

 

You can substitute alcohol for drugs in every single one of those.

 

Here's the gist of my thoughts on it:

 

- Drinking alcohol is not a crime, the actions that result from one drinking alcohol can be though.

- Carrying a knife is not a crime, the actions that result from carrying the knife can be though.

- Carrying/owning a gun is not a crime, the actions that result from one doing so can be though.

- Doing drugs should remain a crime because the actions that result from doing them can be criminal?

 

The inconsistencies don't make sense to me.

This was just published a few days ago.

 

Thanks to the Drug War, the US incarcerates more of its own people than any country in the world except maybe N. Korea | AEIdeas

 

The chart above shows the breakdown of the current federal inmate population by type of offense, according to the most recent data from the Federal Bureau of Prisons. There are currently 90,043 Americans serving time in federal prisons for drug crimes, which is by far the No. 1 offense that results in a federal jail sentence (see chart). Drug offenders make up almost half (47.1%) of our federal inmate population of 218,171, and that helps explain why the US retains its status as the World’s No.1 Jailer with a prison population of 713 per 100,000 population, more than even any of the world’s most notorious and oppressive regimes like Myanmar (120 per 100,000 population), Cuba (510 per 100,000 population), and Iran (333 per 100,000).

You can substitute alcohol for drugs in every single one of those.

 

Here's the gist of my thoughts on it:

 

- Drinking alcohol is not a crime, the actions that result from one drinking alcohol can be though.

- Carrying a knife is not a crime, the actions that result from carrying the knife can be though.

- Carrying/owning a gun is not a crime, the actions that result from one doing so can be though.

- Doing drugs should remain a crime because the actions that result from doing them can be criminal?

 

The inconsistencies don't make sense to me.

What inconsistency? I agreed with you and just stated that my issue was with the related crimes. I never said not to prosecute drunks or other criminals for the crimes they commit. I said let you and anyone else that wants to get stoned out of their mind do it, they can OD if they want to, free will right. But if you commit a crime under the influence that should be a mitigating factor and you should be prosecuted fully. Prosecution for related crimes needs to be tougher whether it be drugs, alcohol, knives or guns.