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I'm not trying to be argumentative, not in the mood today. We can leave the gun ban logic for another discussion. We all know that they aren't remotely argued similarly. We are talking about ingestion type drugs, alcohol and tobacco are included. My argument alcohol vs. heroin (for example) is this: I'd have to assume that alcohol would be consumed more often in moderation than heroine. I've never done heroin so I can't speak firsthand, but I have a hard time believing that moderation is mentioned when consuming, assuming there is a level of moderation with it's use.

What if your solution is to legalize everything? I would make heroin and methamphetamine legally available.

 

Also, I find it fitting to the thread that the examples you use are "black tar heroin" and "meth". These are two prime examples of drugs that could be made less dangerous the through legalization.

 

Just a thought...if all drugs were legal, could anyone afford them? We sure as heck can't afford a lot of prescription drugs. What will be the difference?

 

I believe our culture is overly tolerant of the use of drugs. I don't mean legally, but socially. For every 10 people that experiment, someone is going to get addicted, not any different than alcohol, many drugs can just kill you faster and are more addictive. More education, more treatment, with a goal of creating peer pressure in the other direction. Drugs are not cool!!

 

A lot of money is being spent to combat cigarette smoking...maybe more of this money needs to go to advertising against drug use.

I'm not trying to be argumentative' date=' not in the mood today. [b']We can leave the gun ban logic for another discussion.[/b] We all know that they aren't remotely argued similarly. We are talking about ingestion type drugs, alcohol and tobacco are included. My argument alcohol vs. heroin (for example) is this: I'd have to assume that alcohol would be consumed more often in moderation than heroine. I've never done heroin so I can't speak firsthand, but I have a hard time believing that moderation is mentioned when consuming, assuming there is a level of moderation with it's use.

That's probably your best move.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, not in the mood today. We can leave the gun ban logic for another discussion. We all know that they aren't remotely argued similarly. We are talking about ingestion type drugs, alcohol and tobacco are included. My argument alcohol vs. heroin (for example) is this: I'd have to assume that alcohol would be consumed more often in moderation than heroine. I've never done heroin so I can't speak firsthand, but I have a hard time believing that moderation is mentioned when consuming, assuming there is a level of moderation with it's use.

I don't think consumed in moderation and consumed responsibly are the same thing. And honestly I don't think we should regulate if something is consumed in moderation.

 

If I go home tonight and drink 10 beers I doubt anyone would say I consumed in moderation. However, if I do nothing but watch TV while consuming said beers, have I not consumed responsibly?

I still see no difference.....I shoot up some heroin, get behind the wheel and kill someone, I get charged with DUI and some sort of vehicular homicide/manslaugther. I get hammer drunk, get behind the wheel and kill someone I get charged with the same thing.

 

I'd be willing to bet there are thousands of drug users, who do so responsibly, and never harm others. I'd be willing to bet there are an equal number, if not more, who abuse alcohol and cause harm to others because of it. Both impair one's judgement, but if done responsibly, neither are a harm to others.

I don't think consumed in moderation and consumed responsibly are the same thing. And honestly I don't think we should regulate if something is consumed in moderation.

 

If I go home tonight and drink 10 beers I doubt anyone would say I consumed in moderation. However, if I do nothing but watch TV while consuming said beers, have I not consumed responsibly?

Sure. But I have a question that still hasn't been answered. Alcohol vs. heroin, which can be consumed more responsibly? Can one do heroin and be able to drive a vehicle properly in your opinion? Can one do that with 2 beers? I'd argue that if you want to stay home all night burnt out of your head, either is fine. It's when you infringe upon others rights that I have issue. And my stance is that the 2 are different animals.

I still see no difference.....I shoot up some heroin, get behind the wheel and kill someone, I get charged with DUI and some sort of vehicular homicide/manslaugther. I get hammer drunk, get behind the wheel and kill someone I get charged with the same thing.

 

I'd be willing to bet there are thousands of drug users, who do so responsibly, and never harm others. I'd be willing to bet there are an equal number, if not more, who abuse alcohol and cause harm to others because of it. Both impair one's judgement, but if done responsibly, neither are a harm to others.

 

I didn't expect you to see the difference. Let me put it this way, is there any way that one can do heroin in moderation to be coherent enough to operate a vehicle? And if that answer eludes us, or if it doesn't for that matter, are heroin users more likely to get "blasted" than a couple who has a glass of wine with dinner?

Sure. But I have a question that still hasn't been answered. Alcohol vs. heroin, which can be consumed more responsibly? Can one do heroin and be able to drive a vehicle properly in your opinion? Can one do that with 2 beers? I'd argue that if you want to stay home all night burnt out of your head, either is fine. It's when you infringe upon others rights that I have issue. And my stance is that the 2 are different animals.

Having never used heroin I couldn't say for sure. I would also have a hard time answering not knowing the dosage/purity level of the heroin. But I would definitely lean towards agreeing with you that a "normal" dose of heroin vs 1 beer, the beer will be much easier to function behind the wheel.

 

The thing is spin, nobody is saying to legalize infringing upon others rights. It seems like we are both actually on the same page. We are ok with people sitting at home or in my case even a social setting staying "under the influence" as long as they don't get behind the wheel or in any other way infringe upon the rights of others.

 

Serious question. Do you think heroin (or any other hard drug) use will skyrocket if made legal?

I still see no difference.....I shoot up some heroin, get behind the wheel and kill someone, I get charged with DUI and some sort of vehicular homicide/manslaugther. I get hammer drunk, get behind the wheel and kill someone I get charged with the same thing.

 

I'd be willing to bet there are thousands of drug users, who do so responsibly, and never harm others. I'd be willing to bet there are an equal number, if not more, who abuse alcohol and cause harm to others because of it. Both impair one's judgement, but if done responsibly, neither are a harm to others.

 

You show me a responsible heroin user and it will be the first I've ever seen.

Having never used heroin I couldn't say for sure. I would also have a hard time answering not knowing the dosage/purity level of the heroin. But I would definitely lean towards agreeing with you that a "normal" dose of heroin vs 1 beer, the beer will be much easier to function behind the wheel.

 

The thing is spin, nobody is saying to legalize infringing upon others rights. It seems like we are both actually on the same page. We are ok with people sitting at home or in my case even a social setting staying "under the influence" as long as they don't get behind the wheel or in any other way infringe upon the rights of others.

 

Serious question. Do you think heroin (or any other hard drug) use will skyrocket if made legal?

I have no idea. I'd think it would increase obviously. But I can't seem to wrap my head around the desire to make it more prevalent without thinking collateral damage wouldn't follow. Call it paranoia perhaps, and maybe it's because I have a teenage driver and another in the wings. I prefer to keep the pavement as safe as possible. I think if it's made legal, that would be a stretch to think those under the influence and on the roads wouldn't increase as well. Not sure if that's an argument that makes sense to some, but one of the many concerns I'd have in legalization.

Most of the drugs being spoken about by definition can't be taken in moderation due to their addictive powers. I like Spindoc and HB20, just don't see drug users being moderate about drug use. In fact I've never seen a drug user that was a moderate user of any drug, the only thing that restricted the amount they took was the availability of the drug. They would take all they could get every time they could get it.

 

Making drugs more available IMO would only increase drug use...and people that would never consider it would now be tempted due to it's new found availability.

I asked in the initial post on this thread What Could Be Done? and specifically asked for ideas other than legalization of drugs...yet for the most part that is all that has been proposed.

 

FKYW, Bash, Mustang you guys seem to have given the drug issue a lot more thought than most of us...none of you has an idea besides legalizing drugs?

I asked in the initial post on this thread What Could Be Done? and specifically asked for ideas other than legalization of drugs...yet for the most part that is all that has been proposed.

 

FKYW, Bash, Mustang you guys seem to have given the drug issue a lot more thought than most of us...none of you has an idea besides legalizing drugs?

 

It's the only one I like...

Most of the drugs being spoken about by definition can't be taken in moderation due to their addictive powers. I like Spindoc and HB20, just don't see drug users being moderate about drug use. In fact I've never seen a drug user that was a moderate user of any drug, the only thing that restricted the amount they took was the availability of the drug. They would take all they could get every time they could get it.

 

Making drugs more available IMO would only increase drug use...and people that would never consider it would now be tempted due to it's new found availability.

 

I'm just not seeing the train of thought where all of a sudden the legality of heroin/meth/crack will cause a massive spike in users. Also, I think some people in this thread are extremely naive on just how easily these things can be obtained right now.

 

I feel like a broken record at this point, but controlling "moderation" doesn't feel like a government job to me. Just the responsible use.