Correct. You prove his point.

 

The fact that people may commit crimes while using drugs is irrelevant. Millions of people use drugs everday without committing other crimes. We have laws on the book to punish those who steal, murder or assault other people. That won't change. But making laws on what people can consume restricts freedom with no added benefit to society.

 

If you are Pro-gun right like I am as well. You can't be anything other than a hypocrite to see you are using the same argument anti-gun group does for more gun laws. The drug isn't committing the crime. If you made them legal and put them under the FDA would allow for better control than buying on a street corner. Prohibition creates Gang empires and has a much more negative impact on society.

The fact that people may commit crimes while using drugs is irrelevant. Millions of people use drugs everday without committing other crimes. We have laws on the book to punish those who steal, murder or assault other people. That won't change. But making laws on what people can consume restricts freedom with no added benefit to society.

 

If you are Pro-gun right like I am as well. You can't be anything other than a hypocrite to see you are using the same argument anti-gun group does for more gun laws. The drug isn't committing the crime. If you made them legal and put them under the FDA would allow for better control than buying on a street corner. Prohibition creates Gang empires and has a much more negative impact on society.

I am on the extreme gun right. I also am against legalizing heroin. I'm not sure you would be in the majority if you believe otherwise.

 

Correct. You prove his point.

 

:lol2:

I am on the extreme gun right. I also am against legalizing heroin. I'm not sure you would be in the majority if you believe otherwise.

 

What is the benefit of making drugs illegal? How has it helped or improved society or the family of drug users?

What is the benefit of making drugs illegal? How has it helped or improved society or the family of drug users?

 

There's 130+ posts dealing with that issue, I'll ask you this, in your opinion, what are the benefits?

 

There's 130+ posts dealing with that issue, I'll ask you this, in your opinion, what are the benefits?

 

The biggest one seems to be a massive reduction in the amount of taxpayer dollars flowing from local, state and federal coffers to CCA and other prison industry entities. I'll let you do the math on how big of an industry that is, but it is in the billions.

 

The next biggest one seems to be the amount of tax dollars generated by the sale and regulation of once-illegal substances. My guess is this would be a significant boost to the economy and local, state and federal treasuries.

 

I'm thinking we could, as a society, do a lot of good if we could reverse that tax suck.

The biggest one seems to be a massive reduction in the amount of taxpayer dollars flowing from local, state and federal coffers to CCA and other prison industry entities. I'll let you do the math on how big of an industry that is, but it is in the billions.

 

The next biggest one seems to be the amount of tax dollars generated by the sale and regulation of once-illegal substances. My guess is this would be a significant boost to the economy and local, state and federal treasuries.

 

I'm thinking we could, as a society, do a lot of good if we could reverse that tax suck.

 

I agree with that. But let me throw this out there. Are we ok as a society making heroin (my drug of choice for this argument) available to someone 18? Is it 21? And those in favor of legalization are trumpeting the fact that drug users are responsible and won't infringe upon the rights of others when that age group is the gold standard from making poor decisions?

And we haven't even breached the topic of rise in healthcare costs related to use/overdose/disease spread with shared use/children born addicted......I could go on.

 

The biggest one seems to be a massive reduction in the amount of taxpayer dollars flowing from local, state and federal coffers to CCA and other prison industry entities. I'll let you do the math on how big of an industry that is, but it is in the billions.

 

The next biggest one seems to be the amount of tax dollars generated by the sale and regulation of once-illegal substances. My guess is this would be a significant boost to the economy and local, state and federal treasuries.

 

I'm thinking we could, as a society, do a lot of good if we could reverse that tax suck.

 

So is there any proof that legalizing drugs has helped boost economies in other places where its happened? I've yet to see anything other than people here saying it will happen.

This is a very, very tough question to answer.

 

I'm in my 50's so I've been around to see a lot of the drug cycles. I call them cycles because drugs do seem to run in cycles. So many drugs have been in and out of style over my life time it's not even funny. I have tried several drugs over the years but have never done any of what I call the highly addictive drugs(Crack, Heroin, Meth, ie)

 

I definitely know what we're doing is not working. I do see percieved advantages to legalizing it. I also see percieved advantages to not. I use percieved because none of us know what the outcome would be, we all just know what we're doing isn't working.

 

I don't think that comparing heroin to alchohol is in anyway a fair comparison unless you are talking about driving impaired. Impaired is impaired no matter what it is.

 

Alchoholism is not the same as a heroin addiction.

 

Last I saw, somewhere in the neighborhood of 52% of the population drinks regularly(regularly is defined as 12 times a year in most studies). Of that, depending on which study you read, 5% - 10% of those people are alchoholics. The majority of people drink alchohol and never become alchoholics. Alchoholism is a disease that certain people are susceptible and others are not. Doesn't mean it's not a problem, just means it's different. This would match my lifes learnings. Of the 200-250 or so people that I know who drink regularly, I know 12 alchoholics.

 

Finding stats on people who have tried narcotics, (in particular opioids) is a difficult task and hard to find stats. we only hear about addiction stats. You here everything from, "You can try it once and be addicted" (which I would think would be very, very rare) to "Lots of people use it occationally" (which I think is also very rare). So I fall back on my own life experiences. I know people who tried heroin or crack once or twice who didn't like it and never did it again. However, every person that I have known that used heroin or crack regularly became addicted. Some of them managed to get clean through rehab, but the majority never got free of it no matter how many times they went into rehab, and virtually all of them betrayed their family and friends at some point. And sadly (or unsadly if you believe they got what they deserved), most of them are dead.

 

You cannot convince me that making it legal would not increase the number of people who try it. I have no doubt that it would. I also believe that if more people who try it, the more who will become addicted. That is why I said percieved above, because I percieve that to be a logical conclusion. But when I think it through rationally, addiction is only a crime problem if you can't get what you want. And my biggest issue with drugs is the crime it creates. Whether it's the dealers fighting and killing, or the addicts stealing and killing.

 

At one time in my life, I would have never concidered making most or all drugs legal. But that is the way that I lean today. I'd hate to see people self medicating by going and getting penicillin every time they had a cold, but I guess they don't hurt anybody but themselves either. Personally I think self medication would become a big problem. A different type of problem, but a big problem.

 

The one stat I didn't realize when looking stuff up was that only 52% of the population drinks regularly. I thought it was much higher. That does encourage me to think that not that many more people would try the harder drugs. All current under the influence laws would obviously apply.

 

In order to get rid of street trafficking, it would have to be cheaper to by it legally. Basically if you sell it cheaper than the dealers, you put most of the dealers out of business. You would have to have some sort of liscenced container that if you had it in your possession you got it from a legal source.

 

I would be okay with growing for personal use, if you can grow it and want to get high off of it go right ahead, but selling would be illegal.

 

Manufacturing any narcotic would be illegal, and should result in hard labor.

 

Of course I think violent crimes should result in hard labor too.

 

 

So, that's my 2 cents.

There's 130+ posts dealing with that issue, I'll ask you this, in your opinion, what are the benefits?

 

1. It would reduce the crime and eliminate the criminal activity that stems from the black market. Drugs are more expensive being illegal and even more so when legislators decided to "crack down." All this does is raise the price in hopes to deter people from doing them --which it doesn't -- and makes drug lords like El Chapo Guzmán very rich men (or women.)

 

2. It would make drug use much safer and clean. When drugs are produced legally, they would end up undergoing some type of quality control making the unknown and dangerous chemicals obsolete. The biggest reason we see so many people "shooting" up is because its the cheapest way of getting their fix. Drugs would be cheaper, however, price has shown not to matter because people will find another, cheaper way -- like using a needle. They could get the same high and doing doing drugs in a cleaner fashion.

 

3. Free up our prisons and judicial systems.

 

4. Allow us to save billions on taxpayers money.

 

5. Potentially save the black family unit from being subjected to disproportionate scrutiny and imprisoned for non-violent crimes.

 

6. Allow us to address the real issue at hand: poverty. Poverty is the leading cause of drug abuse. Ending the war on drugs would allow us to free up resources and focus on poverty. Drug abuse shouldn't be labeled as a criminal activity. It's a social issue much like alcoholism and tobacco use and we should educate people as such.

 

 

I agree with that. But let me throw this out there. Are we ok as a society making heroin (my drug of choice for this argument) available to someone 18? Is it 21? And those in favor of legalization are trumpeting the fact that drug users are responsible and won't infringe upon the rights of others when that age group is the gold standard from making poor decisions?

 

I think this is overreaction. Most people by that age have done an illegal drug. Overwhelming majority stay above the fray. You think it's because its illegal? Or do you think its because they've been educated by their parents and as an 18 or 19 year old see the damage it can do. I'm 21. I'm not going to indulge because its legal. Almost everyone in my age group, especially in KY, probably have quite a few people they know and can call if they wanted it -- from perks, to heroin you snort, to heroin you inject.

 

You are okay with putting a gun in an 18 or 21 year olds hand and paying for them to go overseas, no? You trust them to fight for your country (which is a huge cause for drug abuse) and come back alive, but you don't trust majority of them to make the right decision when it comes to drugs?

So is there any proof that legalizing drugs has helped boost economies in other places where its happened? I've yet to see anything other than people here saying it will happen.

 

It isn't going to solve our economic woes. And we wouldn't only be gaining money...You have to look at the money it saves from institutions that derive from the drug war.

1. It would reduce the crime and eliminate the criminal activity that stems from the black market. Drugs are more expensive being illegal and even more so when legislators decided to "crack down." All this does is raise the price in hopes to deter people from doing them --which it doesn't -- and makes drug lords like El Chapo Guzmán very rich men (or women.)

 

2. It would make drug use much safer and clean. When drugs are produced legally, they would end up undergoing some type of quality control making the unknown and dangerous chemicals obsolete. The biggest reason we see so many people "shooting" up is because its the cheapest way of getting their fix. Drugs would be cheaper, however, price has shown not to matter because people will find another, cheaper way -- like using a needle. They could get the same high and doing doing drugs in a cleaner fashion.

 

3. Free up our prisons and judicial systems.

 

4. Allow us to save billions on taxpayers money.

 

5. Potentially save the black family unit from being subjected to disproportionate scrutiny and imprisoned for non-violent crimes.

 

6. Allow us to address the real issue at hand: poverty. Poverty is the leading cause of drug abuse. Ending the war on drugs would allow us to free up resources and focus on poverty. Drug abuse shouldn't be labeled as a criminal activity. It's a social issue much like alcoholism and tobacco use and we should educate people as such.

 

 

 

 

I think this is overreaction. Most people by that age have done an illegal drug. Overwhelming majority stay above the fray. You think it's because its illegal? Or do you think its because they've been educated by their parents and as an 18 or 19 year old see the damage it can do. I'm 21. I'm not going to indulge because its legal. Almost everyone in my age group, especially in KY, probably have quite a few people they know and can call if they wanted it -- from perks, to heroin you snort, to heroin you inject.

 

You are okay with putting a gun in an 18 or 21 year olds hand and paying for them to go overseas, no? You trust them to fight for your country (which is a huge cause for drug abuse) and come back alive, but you don't trust majority of them to make the right decision when it comes to drugs?

So, you equate serving in the military with being able to legally shoot heroin? Stop me if I'm making a stretch, because it sure seems you are connecting that. Personally I think that's an asinine connection. You guys make these extraordinary connections to justify legalizing drugs. If you're gonna make the gun age connection, why stop there? What about murder? Let's allow murder of those that may have a record. Frees up prisons (you said this was good). It would save billions in taxpayer money. (You said it was good). It would save any family, black or mexican or trailer white, from being disproportionately imprisoned for no more than ridding society of a substandard human. (you made a similar connection and said it was good). It would eliminate system folks and directly reduce poverty. (again, good by your standard).

 

So, if you agree that this stretch is beyond retarded, then you can see how I can't make your stretch either.

1. It would reduce the crime and eliminate the criminal activity that stems from the black market. Drugs are more expensive being illegal and even more so when legislators decided to "crack down." All this does is raise the price in hopes to deter people from doing them --which it doesn't -- and makes drug lords like El Chapo Guzmán very rich men (or women.)

 

2. It would make drug use much safer and clean. When drugs are produced legally, they would end up undergoing some type of quality control making the unknown and dangerous chemicals obsolete. The biggest reason we see so many people "shooting" up is because its the cheapest way of getting their fix. Drugs would be cheaper, however, price has shown not to matter because people will find another, cheaper way -- like using a needle. They could get the same high and doing doing drugs in a cleaner fashion.

 

3. Free up our prisons and judicial systems.

 

4. Allow us to save billions on taxpayers money.

 

5. Potentially save the black family unit from being subjected to disproportionate scrutiny and imprisoned for non-violent crimes.

 

6. Allow us to address the real issue at hand: poverty. Poverty is the leading cause of drug abuse. Ending the war on drugs would allow us to free up resources and focus on poverty. Drug abuse shouldn't be labeled as a criminal activity. It's a social issue much like alcoholism and tobacco use and we should educate people as such.

 

 

 

 

I think this is overreaction. Most people by that age have done an illegal drug. Overwhelming majority stay above the fray. You think it's because its illegal? Or do you think its because they've been educated by their parents and as an 18 or 19 year old see the damage it can do. I'm 21. I'm not going to indulge because its legal. Almost everyone in my age group, especially in KY, probably have quite a few people they know and can call if they wanted it -- from perks, to heroin you snort, to heroin you inject.

 

You are okay with putting a gun in an 18 or 21 year olds hand and paying for them to go overseas, no? You trust them to fight for your country (which is a huge cause for drug abuse) and come back alive, but you don't trust majority of them to make the right decision when it comes to drugs?

 

About as close to a perfect post as can be made in this thread. 100% agree.

I have read this entire thread and it's evident to me that the youngsters are all for a lawless age coming down the pike. They want no one to be held accountable, no social responsibility. It's the decay of our society in a nutshell. I suspect now that there will be posts to follow this one that will say that my generation is stiff and closed minded and irrational, and that my shortsighted view is antiquated. But I expect that, and would be shocked if it isn't to follow. I fear for this mindset that is on the horizon for our country.