July 9, 201313 yr Let me see if I understand how to combat the drug problem in our country.....Just Legalize it, Tax it (Government is such good stewards of our money now let's give them more), Educate about it (tell kids it's bad) and hope for the best. Honestly though, isn't that inherently better than artificially creating the prison corporation industry and just allowing operations such as CCA to openly loot the treasury? Obviously, you've identified a key problem with the alternative to what's going on now, but if we reduced the influence of lobbyists over our government, I'd like to think that money could do some good once the incentive for our legislators giving the country away to corporate interests is gone.
July 9, 201313 yr For those of you in the legalize it camp and wanting the government to have less control, are you ok with them taxing it, regulating it, and having a hand in distribution, whether directly or indirectly? They already do with all other consumer products , we would just be adding another product. That is exactly what they do now with pot in the states where it is legal. I'm for small government not zero government.
July 9, 201313 yr Honestly though, isn't that inherently better than artificially creating the prison corporation industry and just allowing operations such as CCA to openly loot the treasury? Obviously, you've identified a key problem with the alternative to what's going on now, but if we reduced the influence of lobbyists over our government, I'd like to think that money could do some good once the incentive for our legislators giving the country away to corporate interests is gone. Herion has a better chance of being legalized than special interest going away.
July 9, 201313 yr Author Honestly though, isn't that inherently better than artificially creating the prison corporation industry and just allowing operations such as CCA to openly loot the treasury? Obviously, you've identified a key problem with the alternative to what's going on now, but if we reduced the influence of lobbyists over our government, I'd like to think that money could do some good once the incentive for our legislators giving the country away to corporate interests is gone. I get what your saying, but I don't think that the prisons are over ran with drug users. Drug dealers, manufacturers and traffickers are the people in prison from drug crimes. Even if drugs were some how decriminalized those same actions would still be against the law. Even though I am no fan of private prisons, I don't think arrest for simple possession is anything they are concerned about. If private prisons had as strong of lobby as some think there would be mass round ups of illegal aliens, that would keep the money flowing to the prisons.
July 10, 201313 yr Anyone that thanks drugs like heroine and crack and meth need to made legal needs their head examined. I don't have an issue with weed but weed isn't in the same universe with those drugs. My solution is make he penalties stiffer for the larger scale offenses.
July 10, 201313 yr Pro-Drug term was just used for expediency in typing on my part, sorry if that offended. I NEVER said the war on drugs was working, that's why I started this thread. I was asking what can/needs to be done to fight the drug problem in this country. The only solutions given are legalization. Few have mentioned the root cause of the drug problem/culture in this country and how to change that. Your and others solution is, we can't fix it so let's legalize it. I agree with you that it is a social problem, but how as a society can we change that. But as a social problem it does have a side effect of causing several criminal problems (not talking about drug crimes either but other non-victimless crimes). No. Solutions offered have been legalization or decriminalization or keep current policy. Only in the past 40 years has the latter been policy. At least consider decrim-dela-crim, no? If nothing else, allow the states to decide what happens when an individual is caught with possession. Get the federal government out of it. Whichever solution works, other states would adopt.
July 10, 201313 yr Author From Speed Limit thread No its an unintelligent idea to deflect from a serious topic. If you find this analogy to be accurate there is no reason for me to respond to your posts on the other topic. Which I may add you never gave an answer on how you would fix the problem just ridiculed others . Its amusing that you find this thread to even be comparable to what was said in the other. Yep no difference between public/private property. Amusing. I started that thread to see what ideas were out there besides legalization. All you've suggested is legalization, which I expressly asked to be left off of the discussion. Trying to come up with other ideas not the same ol' status quo or pipe dream ideas like legalization (that is not going to happen). I did in fact suggest that the drug problem directly corresponds with poverty in America and reducing poverty in America and giving those struggling a light at the end of the tunnel. Right now with no prospects to improve their lives many turn away from any light and to the dark side of drugs either becoming addicted or selling them to make a living.
July 10, 201313 yr Treatment rather than prison. Plus it saves money. http://www.justicepolicy.org/images/upload/10-06_FAC_ForImmediateRelease_PS-AC.pdf "Substance-involved people have come to compose a large portion of the prison population. Substance use may play a role in the commission of certain crimes: approximately 16 percent of people in state prison and 18 percent of people in federal prison reported committing their crimes to obtain money for drugs.21 Treatment delivered in the community is one of the most cost-effective ways to prevent such crimes and costs approximately $20,000 less than incarceration per person per year.22 A study by the Washington State Institute for Public Policy found that every dollar spent on drug treatment in the community yields over $18 in cost savings related to crime.23 In comparison, prisons only yield $.37 in public safety benefit per dollar spent. Releasing people to supervision and making treatment accessible is an effective way of reducing problematic drug use, reducing crime associated with drug use and reducing the number of people in prison." - See more at: Prisons & Drug Offenders | Drug War Facts http://www.justicepolicy.org/images/upload/08_01_REP_DrugTx_AC-PS.pdf "Increased admissions to drug treatment are associated with reduced incarceration rates. States with a higher drug treatment admission rate than the national average send, on average, 100 fewer people to prison per 100,000 in the population than states that have lower than average drug treatment admissions. Of the 20 states that admit the most people to treatment per 100,000, 19 had incarceration rates below the national average. Of the 20 states that admitted the fewest people to treatment per 100,000, eight had incarceration rates above the national average." - See more at: Prisons & Drug Offenders | Drug War Facts http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/sdatji02.pdf According to a federal survey of jail inmates, in 2002, of the 96,359 violent offenders in jail, 37.6% used alcohol at the time of their offense, 21.8% used drugs, and 47.2% used alcohol or drugs; of the 112,895 property offenders in jail that year, 28.5% used alcohol at the time of their offense, 32.5% used drugs, and 46.8% used alcohol or drugs; of the 112,447 drug offenders in jail that year, 22.4% used alcohol at the time of their offense, 43.2% used drugs, and 51.7% used drugs or alcohol at the time of their offense. - See more at: Prisons & Drug Offenders | Drug War Facts Interesting. Alcohol seems to be just as bad when it comes to property theft offenders, but worse when it comes to violent offenders. Why not the negative stigma? Could if be special interests? Nahhhh. We're 'mericans. We're too smart fur that. Plus, it seems like our law enforcement need to dedicate more time to stop violent crimes. http://www.justicepolicy.org/images/upload/09_05_REP_PruningPrisons_AC_PS.pdf Current policy makes policeman revenue collectors rather than......policeman. "The number of people in state prisons for drug offenses has increased 550 percent over the last 20 years. A recent JPI report found that the amount spent on 'cops and courts' – not rates of drug use -- is correlated to admissions to prison for drug offenses. Counties that spend more on law enforcement and the judiciary admit more people to prison for drug offenses than counties that spend less. And increases in federal funding through the Edward Byrne Memorial State and Local Law Enforcement Assistance Grant Program have promoted increases in resources dedicated to drug enforcement. As crime continues to fall in many communities, law enforcement will have more time to focus on aggressive policing of drug offenses; this can be expected to lead to even higher drug imprisonment rates and crowded jails and prisons. According to FBI reports, 83 percent of drug arrests are for possession of illegal drugs alone.16 And regardless of crime in a particular jurisdiction, police often target the same neighborhoods to make drug arrests, which can increase the disproportionate incarceration of people of color." http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/sdatji02.pdf According to a federal survey of jail inmates, of the total 440,670 jail inmates in the US in 2002, 112,447 (25.5%) were drug offenders: 48,823 (11.1%) for possession and 56,574 (12.8%) for trafficking.
July 10, 201313 yr Author No. Solutions offered have been legalization or decriminalization or keep current policy. Only in the past 40 years has the latter been policy. At least consider decrim-dela-crim, no? If nothing else, allow the states to decide what happens when an individual is caught with possession. Get the federal government out of it. Whichever solution works, other states would adopt. There a lot of smart people on BGP, including those that support decriminalization of drugs, but is that the only solution anyone can come up with? The drug problem isn't going to get better until demand is reduced, and that is not as simple as "Just say No!" in school. People in many cases turn to drugs either because they are "stupid" or because they see no better life for themselves. Some do get addicted after "Trying it just once" but that is not where the problem lies. We have got to give people something to strive for something to reduce their desire to do drugs any chance they get. Addicts don't need to be in prison but in rehab that works...Addicts need to get a leg up after recovery and an opportunity to get away from the environment that they came from. I have seen one young man go to rehab so many times that I have lost count. He get's dried out and clean, finishes counseling and goes back home to the same environment he was in when he got addicted. Friends will go pick him up first night home and out he goes and within hours of leaving rehab he is drunk and within days he is doing drugs again and stealing from friends, family and neighbors to buy more drugs to "Party". His problem is when he get's out he's got nothing else to do and goes right back to his old routine. Rehab needs to include jobs skills for those that need them and if the government wants to spend money on something spend it on jobs for recovering addicts. Get them away from home and give them a chance at a new life, other wise the old life will almost always creep back in and drag them back to drugs. Not sure what decrim-dela-crim is could you explain? Tried to look it up but found several references that I wasn't sure was what you meant. States do decide what happens with 99% of possession cases...I guess if you get caught with drugs at Yellowstone it is a Federal Crime, but Federal Courts don't really ever deal with a kid getting caught with a joint behind his ear. Look I'm really not trying to be overly argumentative with anyone on this thread. There are strong opinions on both side of the drug decriminalization idea, but I don't see that ever happening beyond Marijuana. We need other ideas to combat the drug problem in this country. By drug problem I'm not talking about people using or even trafficking drugs, I don't care if users OD and dealers all shoot each other. When I talk about the drug problem I'm talking about the other crimes that are a by product of drugs; theft, robbery, domestic violence, murder and child abuse. I'm talking about the break down of the American family from drug use by the parents, endangering children and putting them in harms way by being around drugs and their manufacturing. The drug problem isn't about a joint or even snorting your grandmas Oxy, it is about our society being at a cross roads. I don't have all of the answers by any stretch but we must realistically look for solutions and not rhetoric.
July 11, 201313 yr If our borders were secure I would suggest deportation for many of these types of crimes... Legal to do heroine but if you commit a felony while under the influence, shipped off to parts unknown. Make meth and all goes well, no problem. Make meth and blow up the house, see ya... DUI - license suspended and pay a big fine. Wreck while drunk, hope you watched survivor. But with our border situation, the dogs would just find their way back home.
July 12, 201313 yr Thought of this thread when I came across this article. Lexington Police Arrest 9 On Heroin Charges Ahead Of News Conference | LEX18.com | Lexington, Kentucky
July 12, 201313 yr Thought of this thread when I came across this article. Lexington Police Arrest 9 On Heroin Charges Ahead Of News Conference | LEX18.com | Lexington, Kentucky All trafficking arrests.
July 16, 201313 yr Cory Monteith Cause of Death Revealed | ETonline.com I never watch Glee but apparently a lot of my friends do. If recreational drugs are legalized would there be more information/counseling about drug interactions or would we see more of this kind of thing because of accessibility?
July 17, 201313 yr If our borders were secure I would suggest deportation for many of these types of crimes... Legal to do heroine but if you commit a felony while under the influence, shipped off to parts unknown. Make meth and all goes well, no problem. Make meth and blow up the house, see ya... DUI - license suspended and pay a big fine. Wreck while drunk, hope you watched survivor. But with our border situation, the dogs would just find their way back home. So basically, you're allowed to to drugs but if you infringe on peoples property or their life, you suffer the consequences? I 100% support this. It makes sense. Legalize it and if the people on the drug doesn't bother anyone, its all good. But if they commit a violent act of aggression on someone or their property, they're gone.
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