Ignorance of 401(k)'s is not an excuse. If those people want safe, invest in a money market. If they don't want to put money in the market, put it in a savings account. Regardless of what they choose to do, they should have total control over their retirement savings.

 

And yes, a very small number of companies did suspend the match when the market tanked, but it was for good reason. Some of them couldn't stay afloat if they did a match. What would you rather they do, go out of business or suspend the match and keep gainfully employing workers?

20.4 percent of U.S. companies offering matches eliminated or reduced said 401(k) matches between 2008-10. That ain't no very small number. Some did this for legitimate reasons, a lot of 'em did it because they could.

20.4 percent of U.S. companies offering matches eliminated or reduced said 401(k) matches between 2008-10. That ain't no very small number. Some did this for legitimate reasons, a lot of 'em did it because they could.

 

what monsters....

You're right. Very few traditional pension plans remain. They're dinosaurs. One big advantage of the old defined benefit plans is that were/are backed by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation. So if your company raided the pension plan, Joe Worker still had some protection. Where I disagree with you is that "the market long term ... will be fine over time." Used to be the case, but today ... maybe ... maybe not. With the old-fashioned pension plan, Joe Worker knew that when he retired, he'd get X amount per month until he died, regardless of whether the Dow was at 5,000 or 15,000.

 

You realize PBGC doesn't insure anywhere close to 100% of pensions. Ask Delphi and US steel workers. 401k plans are pretty simple now if you don't want to be hands on most offer target date funds.

what monsters....

I'm always amused by those who believe that less is better.

20.4 percent of U.S. companies offering matches eliminated or reduced said 401(k) matches between 2008-10. That ain't no very small number. Some did this for legitimate reasons, a lot of 'em did it because they could.

 

All of them did it for legitimate reasons.

All of them did it for legitimate reasons.

Sorry. I forgot. More profit-sharing for the fat cats is a legitimate reason.

Sorry. I forgot. More profit-sharing for the fat cats is a legitimate reason.

 

:lol2::lol2::lol2:

You're right. It is four or five days of extra vacation a year if you don't ever have a serious health problem, i.e., a heart attack, gall bladder surgery, etc. But that's always a roll of the dice, and the odds of a medical "event" increase every year we age. And for some people who are financially savvy, control over one's 401(k) plan can yield results greater than average. But that's a roll of the dice, too.

 

Note that some companies reduced or even suspended 401k matches in 2008 when the stock market tanked. So in economic downturns, there's a price to pay with 401k's.

 

Kentucky public school teachers get a fixed annuity (defined benefit pension) upon retirement, and they are eligible to contribute to a 457 plan (similar to a 401k). More private companies should offer similar.

 

Yeah, my 5 sick days would cover getting me back from a heart attack.

Sorry. I forgot. More profit-sharing for the fat cats is a legitimate reason.

 

Thanks, the Move On and Occupy talking points always bring a smile to my face. Great way to start the day.

Yeah, my 5 sick days would cover getting me back from a heart attack.

 

STD would cover that. Sick days are a perk, not an entitlement.

Sorry. I forgot. More profit-sharing for the fat cats is a legitimate reason.

 

Actually it is.

 

The only reason businesses exist, and as a direct result you or I are employeed, is to make as much profit as possible. If companies aren't treating their employees well, they're free to find employment elsewhere. Your sense of entitlement fascinates me.

Actually it is.

 

The only reason businesses exist, and as a direct result you or I are employeed, is to make as much profit as possible. If companies aren't treating their employees well, they're free to find employment elsewhere. Your sense of entitlement fascinates me.

Workers of Appalachia ... unite!

STD would cover that. Sick days are a perk, not an entitlement.

 

I know, but that fact kinda takes all the thunder from his talking point.

Actually it is.

 

The only reason businesses exist, and as a direct result you or I are employeed, is to make as much profit as possible. If companies aren't treating their employees well, they're free to find employment elsewhere. Your sense of entitlement fascinates me.

UKFan: Would you agree with me that workers also are entitled to maximize their own pay and benefits through any legal means? Or is profit maximization just a one-way street reserved for corporations?

UKFan: Would you agree with me that workers also are entitled to maximize their own pay and benefits through any legal means? Or is profit maximization just a one-way street reserved for corporations?

 

I agree with that, and the best way to maximize pay is to come to work and put in a productive day...