Hey Guru, Could you check out the last paragraph in post 43 where I talk about being told by the concealed carry class I was in that if you are ever in a case to need to use deadly force, even if on the surface it is obvious you were justified, you have a long night and a long legal process to clear yourself.

 

When/if you ever came across an instance where someone did use deadly force to defend themselves and it was obvious he/she was justified and there were witnesses to back them up, what was protocol? I assume the gun would still be confiscated and the person would still have to be taken in for interviews, paperwork and such?

 

Frankly, I don't completely agree with what your instructors told everyone. If it appeared to be a good shoot you would not be booked/arrested etc. You could have a long night because it would be important for the police to investigate immediately. With all that said, my advice to anyone involved in something this serious would be to tell the police you will cooperate fully but you want to contact your attorney for his/her advice first.

 

Also on your first paragraph in post 43 my memory is foggy but there is actually some precedent that states exactly the opposite of what your instructors told you. I am not sure how that relates to citizens vs. the police and if the standard is the same for everyone but the information (room for bad judgment) doesn't pass the smell test based on my foggy memory.

I have my thoughts about this but I will wait for more details. However, a dead man can't talk or defend himself.

In this specific case the man was on the opposite side of the street in his own driveway . In other word not the address police were called. I need more info to come to a complete conclusion. But that is a huge red flag to me . What if they entered the home unannounced and shot the armed home owner protecting his house. I just think in a residential area police are safer letting the public know they are present. I may sound naive I don't know . I just find these to be reasonable questions.

 

I see the bolded as a potential contributor to the situation vs. being a mitigating factor.

 

The officers attention may have been on the house with the alarm - with their back to the man's house. Now, he is behind them, possibly approaching them, apparently with his gun at least in his hand. They are surprised or startled to have someone, with a gun, show up behind them and they react. I have to imagine the first few minutes on-scene even in this mundane situation are when the first responders are most nervous - before they have a chance to evaluate the actual situation.

 

Yes, still need the real facts to come out.

Please read my posts, that practice would be a death sentence for some police officers.

 

Sorry but I strongly disagree. They have to know what the situation is before they shoot 5 times. They're trained, they should be able to identify themselves safely.

I could see a case where police determine that reaching the gunman unnoticed would be critical and unfortunately the elderly gentleman did something to alarm the police and decide deadly force was needed.

 

 

 

 

You would hope people know that once the police show up, at a bare minimum, holster your firearm or preferably lie it down.

 

If they didn't identify themselves he may not have known who they were. I understand the safety issue but to shoot 5 times without knowing the situation?

What am I talking about? Go back and read what YOU posted in post #10 and to a lesser extent in posts #25 and #26.

 

And that is exactly what I am saying. The police drive around in a car we all recognize with big lights on it, they wear a uniform with their name on it, their badge on it, and they wear a huge gun belt. Everyone knows a uniformed police officer when they see them from the time they are in kindergarten.

 

So you think the old guy knew they were police and would not put down his gun? Doesn't sound in character based on the article.

 

Here's an updated article. 8 month officer fired 6 times while the other did not. It does say the old guy put his gun down and then picked it up again. Also says that since January Ft. Worth police have shot and killed 4 people.

 

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/05/29/rookie-police-officer-shot-fort-worth-homeowner-six-times/

Edited May 30, 201313 yr by 75center

Frankly, I don't completely agree with what your instructors told everyone. If it appeared to be a good shoot you would not be booked/arrested etc. You could have a long night because it would be important for the police to investigate immediately. With all that said, my advice to anyone involved in something this serious would be to tell the police you will cooperate fully but you want to contact your attorney for his/her advice first..

 

Using the term "booked" was a poor choice on my part since that does infer an arrest. What I should have said is the instructors said regardless to how justified you were using deadly force, you will not be going home after the incident, you will have to go downtown, you will have to talk to several people and ultimately be cleared through the justice system and having an attorney will be very important.

 

Also on your first paragraph in post 43 my memory is foggy but there is actually some precedent that states exactly the opposite of what your instructors told you. I am not sure how that relates to citizens vs. the police and if the standard is the same for everyone but the information (room for bad judgment) doesn't pass the smell test based on my foggy memory.

 

This part wasn't from the instructors, his was the video the state provides for conceal carry classes.

So you think the old guy knew they were police and would not put down his gun? Doesn't sound in character based on the article.

 

Here's an updated article. 8 month officer fired 6 times while the other did not. It does say the old guy put his gun down and then picked it up again. Also says that since January Ft. Worth police have shot and killed 4 people.

 

Family Wants Independent Investigation For Deadly Officer Shooting « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth

 

Two guys walking around on his property with flashlights, didn't identify themselves as officers and one of them gunned down an innocent law-abiding citizen. This whole situation isn't passing the smell test. Looks like he got trigger happy. I would hope that there will be an independent investigation from outside the police department. If I was a family member of the deceased, I sure wouldn't want that department conducting the investigation.

I am not assuming the deceased pointed his gun at anyone but just having a gun in his hand is more than enough to be a threat.

 

Again everyone, don't ever approach a police officer with a gun in your hand.

 

But what if he didn't know it was a police officer? Let's assume they used the "stealth" approach, and they parked out of sight. The neighbor hears the alarm going off, and goes outside to see what's up. He sees individuals approaching the house the alarm is coming from. How is he supposed to know who the individuals are?

Two guys walking around on his property with flashlights, didn't identify themselves as officers and one of them gunned down an innocent law-abiding citizen. This whole situation isn't passing the smell test. Looks like he got trigger happy. I would hope that there will be an independent investigation from outside the police department. If I was a family member of the deceased, I sure wouldn't want that department conducting the investigation.

 

How do you know they didn't identify themselves as officers? Did I miss where that is a proven fact? Also, if Waller pointed his gun at the officers what do you expect them to do, wait till he shoots? The fact is no one in this thread has any idea of what happened so forming any opinion one way or the other at this time is just ignorant.

But what if he didn't know it was a police officer? Let's assume they used the "stealth" approach, and they parked out of sight. The neighbor hears the alarm going off, and goes outside to see what's up. He sees individuals approaching the house the alarm is coming from. How is he supposed to know who the individuals are?

This is the part that doesn't make sense to me. If it were me I would yell at whoever it was and ask what they were doing. Hopefully at that point they would identify themselves. It will be interesting to see what the officers story is.

Sorry but I strongly disagree. They have to know what the situation is before they shoot 5 times. They're trained, they should be able to identify themselves safely.

 

The sky is a different color in our worlds.

Police carry powerful flashlights. Have you ever tried to see anyone holding one, or see anything beyond it?

 

If I had a flashlight shining in your eyes, & I said I was the police, would you believe me?

So you think the old guy knew they were police and would not put down his gun? Doesn't sound in character based on the article.

 

Here's an updated article. 8 month officer fired 6 times while the other did not. It does say the old guy put his gun down and then picked it up again. Also says that since January Ft. Worth police have shot and killed 4 people.

 

Family Wants Independent Investigation For Deadly Officer Shooting « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth

 

I think the deceased made more than one serious errors in judgment and it was fatal.

 

We need to know why he put the gun down and why he picked the gun up again (major major red flag).

 

Also from the article:

 

Hanlon’s voice is heard on an audio recording taken moments after the shooting to report the shooting, “I don’t know who the guy is. The guy came out with a gun. He wouldn’t put the gun down. He pointed it a Hoeppner. Hoeppner fired.”

I think the deceased made more than one serious errors in judgment and it was fatal.

 

We need to know why he put the gun down and why he picked the gun up again (major major red flag).

 

Also from the article:

 

Hanlon’s voice is heard on an audio recording taken moments after the shooting to report the shooting, “I don’t know who the guy is. The guy came out with a gun. He wouldn’t put the gun down. He pointed it a Hoeppner. Hoeppner fired.”

 

I think it's pretty obvious the cop made a serious error in judgment as well. Otherwise an innocent man wouldn't have been murdered.