List of rookie MVP's: Fred Lynn and Ichiro

List of Triple Crown Winners: Carl Yastremzki, Frank Robinson, Mickey Mantle, Joe Medwick, Lou Gehrig, Jimmie Foxx, Chuck Klein, Rogers Hornsby, Ty Cobb, Nap Lajoie, Tip O'Neill, Paul Hines.

 

I posted this because I can't decide which list is more impressive. There have only been two rookie MVP's so that's an exclusive club. On the other hand, there have been 12 players to win the Triple Crown. At first glance, it looks like a rookie MVP may be more impressive but that is a SERIOUS list of dudes that could rake.

 

As for the question between Trout and Cabrera, I have no idea and both are deserving. I lean towards Cabrera because I like him. Not that I dislike Trout.

 

Additionally, I realize that the first paragraph has little to do with the argument.

I'd say "adequate" would describe Miggy's D.

 

That's nowhere near how you would describe Trout's.

The Angels were 6-14 when Trout came up ... they're 89-71 now. Yeah, I would say he's had an impact.

 

Trout and flounder ... nice. :lol:

Albert Pujols major struggles early in the year have nothing to do with that? It's not all Trout but he's pretty awesome.

 

Trout is the only person in history with 30 HR, 45 SB and 125R

May want to make sure your numbers are accurate next time.

 

He hit .254-5-6 in September.

My numbers are accurate ...

 

Trout is the only person in history with 30 HR, 45 SB and 125R

 

Correct. If we're using rarity as a measuring stick....

I'd say "adequate" would describe Miggy's D.

 

That's nowhere near how you would describe Trout's.

If "below average" is adequate, I guess you're right.

The issue of playoffs being a factor is also puzzling.

 

The Tigers have won 87 games. Angels have won 89.

Correct. If we're using rarity as a measuring stick....

 

Well we are using the triple crown so...

Wouldn't be surprised to see CO-MVP's.

Albert Pujols major struggles early in the year have nothing to do with that? It's not all Trout but he's pretty awesome.

 

Trout is the only person in history with 30 HR, 45 SB and 125R

Pujols didn't really start to hit like Pujols until late May or so. Even so, when the Angels came up, they were 6-14. They were 25-25 at the end of May. So yes, I would say that Trout had an impact.

If "below average" is adequate, I guess you're right.

 

It's a relative measure. His fielding % and range factor make him adequate.

For the sabrematricians among us Trout's bWAR of 10.7 is 20th highest ever for position players.

It's a relative measure. His fielding % and range factor make him adequate.

Detroit third basemen (Cabrera, the vast majority of the time) are last in the league in assists and near the middle in double plays. I realize the Tigers have a strikeout staff, but every defensive metric I have seen rates Cabrera below average or well below average.

 

Bottom line ... he's not a good third baseman. If he was, he never would've been moved across the diamond.

 

I'm not criticizing Cabrera for this. He shouldn't be expected to be an average third baseman, and he moved without complaint. But in terms of evaluating players and their value, defense has to be considered. That is where Trout has a huge edge.

Ask Ted Williams about that. Happened twice.

 

Well, I would ask him...but, I've heard he's not saying much lately.

:clap:

 

Anyway, yes, it did happen to him. In '42 he was absolutely robbed. Any most baseball historians will say so. But, it may have had way more to do with his demeanor than with his on-field competition. In '47 he loses to DiMaggio, who had some nice stats, but no where near what Ted did.

 

But, the thing is in '42 when Ted did it, it had only been 5 years since someone else had done it (win the triple crown). As has already been stated, it's been a much, much longer time since Yaz did it back in '67.

Detroit third basemen (Cabrera, the vast majority of the time) are last in the league in assists and near the middle in double plays. I realize the Tigers have a strikeout staff, but every defensive metric I have seen rates Cabrera below average or well below average.

 

Bottom line ... he's not a good third baseman. If he was, he never would've been moved across the diamond.

 

I'm not criticizing Cabrera for this. He shouldn't be expected to be an average third baseman, and he moved without complaint. But in terms of evaluating players and their value, defense has to be considered. That is where Trout has a huge edge.

 

Not saying I agree or disagree but that is one of the worst ways to evaluate a player that I've read in quite some time. A player has no control over number of attempts. That's like saying the Royals are a great defensive team because they have more outfield assists than anyone. In reality, they're tied for second to last with a .982 fielding percentage.

 

His range factor is kind of in the middle of MLB 3rd baseman.