June 28, 201214 yr His WAR is 0.1 higher, meaning you have virtually the same result with either in the lineup. Which takes me back to my original point, the Reds would be no better record-wise with Dunn in the lineup than they are with who they're rolling with now. Is there something else you base that on besides the WAR?
June 28, 201214 yr Well lets' see. To have kept Dunn they were looking at huge salary. So let's say they did sign him. Can we say this team would be exactly the same today with him in left? Highly doubtful. So no, I doubt they would be in 1st place today. Same players on the team as today but add Dunn. Not as good?
June 28, 201214 yr Same players on the team as today but add Dunn. Not as good? That's not reality. No way they have the same roster. But if you want stay in a fantasy world, as most Dunner fans are, then yea as good. Satisfied? One other thing, would you all been whistling this tune last season???
June 28, 201214 yr That's not reality. No way they have the same roster. But if you want stay in a fantasy world, as most Dunner fans are, then yea as good. Satisfied? One other thing, would you all been whistling this tune last season??? He sucked last year so it would be foolish of me to say the Reds would have been better. However, you always contend that he makes a team perform poorly. I asked you a simple question about him being in THIS lineup and the effect on the team of adding a guy who has 24 bombs and 50+ RBIs on a team like the Reds that has no good answer in the 1 and 2 hole. I find it preposterous and disingenuous to limit your answer to "as good." You also discredit your mantra of "he never plays on a winning team" by pointing out that he wouldn't have the "same roster."
June 28, 201214 yr Who's to say if Dunn was hitting Second in front of Votto his WAR wouldn't be even higher? Dunn is a .276 hitter in his career batting second with a .388 OBP and that's without ever hitting in front of Votto where it has been proven to inflate guys numbers ala Stubbs...Hardly proven at all ... again, you overreacted to a hot streak.
June 28, 201214 yr Adam Dunn was with the Reds from 2001-2008 Here is the Reds team ERA during his Reds career... 2001 - 4.77 - 24 out of 30 2002 - 4.27 - 17 out of 30 2003 - 5.09 - 27 out of 30 2004 - 5.19 - 29 out of 30 2005 - 5.15 - 28 out of 30 2006 - 4.51 - 14 out of 30 Nearly have a winning year that year (80 wins) 2007 - 4.94 - 27 out of 30 2008 - 4.55 -23 out of 30 Clearly it was his fault the Reds were losing.
June 28, 201214 yr Adam Dunn was with the Reds from 2001-2008 Here is the Reds team ERA during his Reds career... 2001 - 4.77 - 24 out of 30 2002 - 4.27 - 17 out of 30 2003 - 5.09 - 27 out of 30 2004 - 5.19 - 29 out of 30 2005 - 5.15 - 28 out of 30 2006 - 4.51 - 14 out of 30 Nearly have a winning year that year (80 wins) 2007 - 4.94 - 27 out of 30 2008 - 4.55 -23 out of 30 Clearly it was his fault the Reds were losing. For comparison they are currently 7th. Direct correlation? Uh, yes.
June 28, 201214 yr Where the heck did I say anything even remotely close to that? I said the Reds would not have much different a record (or lead in the Central) with Dunn as they do without him. I was simply referencing Frazier as proof that Dunn's WAR is not very good. Stubbs has a .310 OBP on the year with a lot of those bats coming in front of Votto...Dunn has a .357 OBP on the year without hitting in front of Votto, however he is hitting in front of Konerko so his OBP would probably be the same maybe a smudge higher in front of Votto...I would think an OBP of around .357 in front of Votto would equate to many more RBI opportunities for Votto...Also factor in that BP could move back to lead-off where he sports a .336 OBP in his career compared to the .258 OBP of Cozart...I would think BP and Dunn hitting in front of Votto would give Votto many more RBI opportunities which would equal more wins for the Reds... You could also make the argument that BP would hit lead-off, Stubbs would stay in the 2 hole since he is 10x's better in front of Votto than anywhere else you put him and then Dunn would bat Cleanup behind Votto...Cleanup is Dunn's second most productive spot in his career besides hitting second...Nobody is going to want to walk Votto with Dunn's power behind him and give up a 2 Run Jack...Dunn despite his strikeout numbers is a really good professional at bat and sees a lot of pitches...He is actually hitting out of position in Chicago, he isn't really a 3 hitter but is still putting up awesome numbers...With Dunn you really have to look past the batting average...I think 24 HRs, 57 RBI's and a .357 OBP would greatly improve the Reds over what they have been getting out of LF and it would improve the players hitting in front of him and behind him as well... Edited June 28, 201214 yr by nkufan23
June 28, 201214 yr Hardly proven at all ... again, you overreacted to a hot streak. 416 at bats there over the course of multiple seasons :confused:...Hardly a hot streak but rather numbers that proves he has been very successful hitting 2nd in his career, and that was without ever hitting in front of someone with a .478 OBP...I have no reason to believe that Dunn in front of Votto wouldn't put up numbers similar to what he has in those 416 at bats if not better...And I know that Votto has never had a guy bat in front of him with .388 OBP...BP would see a ton of strikes with Dunn behind him and Dunn would see a ton of stikes with Votto behind him and Votto would have a ton more at bats with runners on base...That sounds like a winning situation...
June 28, 201214 yr For the record, I get why the Reds traded him. No question about that. I just think Dunn takes unnecessary criticism because he was on a team with no pitching.
June 28, 201214 yr He sucked last year so it would be foolish of me to say the Reds would have been better. However, you always contend that he makes a team perform poorly. I asked you a simple question about him being in THIS lineup and the effect on the team of adding a guy who has 24 bombs and 50+ RBIs on a team like the Reds that has no good answer in the 1 and 2 hole. I find it preposterous and disingenuous to limit your answer to "as good." You also discredit your mantra of "he never plays on a winning team" by pointing out that he wouldn't have the "same roster." Okay, again in fantasy land. IF the roster was the same, and IF he was posting the same numbers, then obviously THIS years team would be better. Now back to reality. He sucked last year. He went to AZ as a hired gun. That team was in 1st place the day he showed up, but didn't remain there, as they played less than .500 ball the rest of the way. He posted some decent numbers for a horrid Washington team. And up til this year has sucked in Chicago. So again let's stay in reality here, please, are the Reds better today than if they had never let go of him? Not just this half season, but since he left? As far as the name calling. Really???
June 28, 201214 yr Okay, again in fantasy land. IF the roster was the same, and IF he was posting the same numbers, then obviously THIS years team would be better. Now back to reality. He sucked last year. He went to AZ as a hired gun. That team was in 1st place the day he showed up, but didn't remain there, as they played less than .500 ball the rest of the way. He posted some decent numbers for a horrid Washington team. And up til this year has sucked in Chicago. So again let's stay in reality here, please, are the Reds better today than if they had never let go of him? Not just this half season, but since he left? As far as the name calling. Really??? Malachi(which is a form of a name), I would advise you to look up the definition of name-calling. I say and do stupid things occasionally but I do not call myself "stupid." I defined your posts(and anyone that agrees with you) as being of a certain type. That's COMPLETELY different than saying anything about Malachi the person. Similar to Ali when stated why he didn't want to fight the Viet Cong "I ain't go no problem with Malachi."
June 28, 201214 yr Dunn also had an appendectomy last season and struggled after that, some of his struggles could have been related to that...
June 28, 201214 yr High Heat Stats » What IS the “traditional” role of a #2 hitter, really?Here's a pretty good article I think on the role of the #2 hitter...Throw WAR out the window, if Dunn was batting second for the Reds they would be a much better team than they are now and prior to the Youkilis trade the White Sox would have been or still could be better with Dunn there as well...
June 28, 201214 yr Last 10 games: 1 HR. 5 RBI, 20 SOs, .132 Avg. Classic Adam Dunn. His low points tend to last up to a month, so lets talk again in a couple of weeks.
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