offside

A classic post by jimmyref. Can a moderator kill this one...please?

:laugh:

Frankly, the question is vague, I perceive a certain edge to it, and it sounds like you're fishing for a way to paint one of my fellow officials into a corner. I sincerely apologize if that perception is wrong. Many times I've called it; many times I've swallowed the whistle. It requires judgment, and that simply cannot be reconciled on a discussion forum. I just get the feeling that a wideout flinched, nobody called it, and the guy caught a touchdown pass against your team--or a similar scenario. If that's the case, please move on. Again, I sincerely apologize if my sideline sense is off tonight.

Some comments from the Cincinnati crowd: http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174973

I'll always consider a well reasoned and articulated counterargument. However, a screaming, blown-a-gasket-temper-tantrum delivered at the volume of a tornado siren doesn't usually sway me. (But it's a lot more entertaining!)

It is a false start if a shift or feigned charge simulates action at the snap. It is an illegal shift if, after a huddle or shift, all 11 players of A don't come to an absolute stop and remain stationary for at least one second before the snap. It is illegal motion if, at the snap, an A player is in motion toward his opponent's goal line.

Well, I think you have to be odd to be an official in the first place.:cry: Good teams don't have much of a problem with the play clock. It's the ugly games that I think of first whenever this topic arises. The main resistance that I had until this discussion is that it will lead to more flags in lopsided games or in games between teams that frankly aren't very good. Those games don't need more flags. But, I'm warming to the idea that even the young teams could eventually adapt. And maybe a visible play clock would actually help them speed it up.

I think I have changed my mind and completely agree with you.

You have a valid point; we do use the 25 second clock at PJS for the finals. If all schools had play clocks, we wouldn't be discussing why the officials didn't call more delay fouls--we'd be discussing why teams get called for it so often.

Yes, you are right. I am guilty of missing that one, too. I'll be watching for it tonight.

I said, "if in doubt, it's a foul."

Attitude? It's written in the NFHS Handbook.

Nope. If the initial contact is not " in the opponent's back, inside the shoulders and below the helmet and above the waist", it's not an illegal block. NFHS Rule 2-5-2.

Obviously, an official has to use good judgment and apply the rules fairly. Please don't let this spiral into semantics; my point in responding to the original question is that sometimes, when conditions warrant, we're generous with the 25 second clock. And it's a bad idea to require 25 second clocks at all highschool venues--even in the championship rounds.

Professional sports rules are black-and-white and are based on money. NFHS rules are different: "...the purpose of interscholastic sports is an extension of the educational process." Officials can make decisions based on both the spirit, and the letter of the rules. Please don't forget that important distinction.

Yes, that is a great idea on paper. But it's impractical at the highschool level because there are very few teams that can pull it off, even with teams who we all figure are "championship caliber".

Yes, NCAA games at NCAA stadiums. It is neither required, nor desirable for highschool stadiums to have 25 second clocks.

Can we sign you up to wear the stripes? What's your price? Nicely done.

Yes, indeed. And sometimes the zebras look bad because last week's game was very close, the clock was ticking, and we had to be technical and make a procedural call against your team. And this week, we decided to ignore it against your opponent because this week, it doesn't matter.

Please understand that I am treading on very thin ice by responding to this question--officials cannot comment on specific games, ever. (Next time, please ask a generic question and do not reference any specific teams). I was not there, I have no knowledge of the teams involved, the officiating crew nor the circumstances surrounding the question... But the answer to your question is, yes, sometimes the officials will let the kids play to their own level. Sometimes, that means that we will keep the flag in our pockets and ignore procedural penalties if it will help the game move along. Maybe we won't call delay if neither team seems to be able to snap within 25 seconds, or maybe we won't be technical about an illegal formation or a shift. Again, sometimes it's about letting the kids play and understanding that nobody came to the game to watch the officials throw flags. Even in a playoff scenario, if the game clock is not also running, the officials will probably not be too technical with calling delay of game.

Also remember that blocks below the waist and clipping (even in the free blocking zone, and even when legal) always present potential player safety issues and are always suspect to officials. All officials will err on the side of caution; if in doubt, we're taught, these blocks are illegal. Maybe we also have a more refined eye in varsity games than we do in middle-school games.

Truer words have never been spoken. The easiest games to officiate are the ones that go to the wire. The hardest are the ones with the lopsided scoreboard. Personally, I appreciate the running clock but am not in favor of a point differential that would end the game early. Let the kids learn how to win big gracefully and, even though it sucks hard, lose with dignity.

First, some definitions: Rule 2-5-1...Clipping is a block against an opponent when the initial contact is from behind, at or below the waist, and not against a player who is a runner or pretending to be a runner. Rule 2-5-2...Blocking in the back is a block against an opponent when the initial contact is in the opponent's back, inside the shoulders and below the helmet and above the waist. Rule 2-5-3...Such cases shall not be ruled clipping and/or blocking in the back unless the official sees the initial contact. When in doubt, the contact is legal... Rule 2-25-3...A defensive player is on his line of scrimmage when he is within 1 yard of his scrimmage line at the snap. Next, here's Rule 2-17, Free-blocking Zone--Legal Blocking Below the Waist, Legal Clipping, Legal Block in the Back: 1. The free-blocking zone is a rectangular area extending laterally 4 yards either side of the spot of the snap and 3 yards behind each line of scrimmage. A player is in the free-blocking zone when any part of his body is in the zone at the snap. 2. Blocking below the waist is permitted in the free-blocking zone when the following conditions are met: a. All players involved in the blocking are on the line of scrimmage and in the zone at the snap. b. The contact is in the zone. [The term "cut block", usually refers to a block below the waist, whether legal or illegal. The term does not appear in the Rules book, and is frequently misused.] 3. Clipping is permitted in the free-blocking zone when the following conditions are met: a. By offensive linemen who are on the line of scrimmage and in the zone at the snap. b. Against defensive players who are on the line of scrimmage and in the zone at the snap. c. The contact is in the zone. 4. Blocking in the back is permitted in the free-blocking zone when the following conditions are met: a. By offensive linemen who are on the line of scrimmage and in the zone at the snap. b. Against defensive players who are in the zone at the snap. c. The contact is in the zone. 5. The free-blocking zone disintegrates and the exception for a player to block below the waist, clip or block in the back is not to continue after the ball has left the zone. First, notice the items in bold. Blocking below the waist and clipping can legally occur only between offensive and defensive linemen (never against players not on the line at the snap). However, an offensive lineman may legally block a "linebacker" in the back, provided they're both in the zone and the ball is in the zone when the block in the back occurs. Offensive backs, flankers, and split ends cannot enter the zone and legally commit any of the above mentioned blocks because they did not start out in the zone at the snap. Tight ends are usually lined up in the zone and, as a general statement, can legally block a defensive tackle or linebacker in the back. But defensive ends are not usually in the zone at the snap, and a tight end who blocks a defensive tackle below the waist will probably be a suspect for a chop block (because the offensive tackle will most likely also be engaged in blocking him). Next, notice that the zone disintegrates when the ball leaves the zone. As previously stated, it has been interpreted by the KHSAA that, in shotgun formation, an immediate block below the waist by an offensive lineman is legal. However, no delay in the block whatsoever is permitted. So, in the shotgun, if a lineman first stands and then drops down to block below the waist, it's a foul. (Offensive tackles are bigger suspects than guards and centers because they tend to have more separation between them and the defensive tackles). And last, a chop block is a delayed, high/low or low/low double-team block and is illegal even in the free blocking zone.

My power is still out and I'm typing on a hijacked computer. I will explain the definition of blocking below the waist and the Free Blocking Zone as soon as Duke Energy gets me plugged back into the grid. Maybe HeyRef can take over?

The bold part is correct. Offensive linemen may block defensive linemen below the waist in the free blocking zone provided the ball is still in the zone. Additionally, an immediate block (simultaneous with the snap, no delay) below the waist on a defensive lineman is legal from the shotgun formation. This is a KHSAA interpretation from a couple years back. Blocks below the waist on linebackers are only legal if he lines up within one yard of his LOS at the snap. And if he does that, he's really not a linebacker anymore.