I'm joining this debate late so sorry if I'm repeating what's already been said, but regarding the large & still growing political divide in this country (that I agree with others who've said Obama has caused to increase), I believe we're rapidly approaching the time & place where the scale of government in this country will be reset one way or the other.

 

Basically, we've had 80 to 100 years of unimpeded growth in the size and scope of the federal gov't. Blame it on Wilson, Roosevelt (either one), Carter, labor unions, crony capitalists, whoever, but there's no doubt that our gov't is now reaching wider & deeper than anyone alive at the turn of the 20th century could have imagined, let alone the founders of our nation.

 

I know a lot of people like to point to the Reagan years as a period of great conservatism, but in reality, all Reagan did as far as the size & scope of gov’t was somewhat slow the pace of overall expansion. I wish I had the graphs handy to attach, but the trend line for the size of gov’t measured in any one of the usual ways over the past 100 years resembles the staircase from my grandparent’s old house – somewhat ragged, maybe a little misshapen with some risers taller than others, but nonetheless moving up.

 

Nothing or no one since the onset of the New Deal has actually shrunk the size of gov’t in any meaningful way. Progressives, liberals, semi-socialists, call ‘em whatever you want, have been at times both aggressive and patient in the fight towards a more intrusive gov’t in America during this period. In the ‘30’s, the 60’s & the 70’s, they fought aggressively towards their goals, making huge strides – Social Security, Welfare, Medicare, etc. – dramatically increasing both the size & scope of gov’t. During the 80’s and 90’s they were patient, focused on tempering the conservative demands of Reagan, the middle-ground policies of Clinton, and the populist Contract for America. And with the election of the enormously popular Obama in the (OK, I need to figure out how to say the ‘10’s properly), boldly, and some say recklessly, forged ahead successfully remaking the nation’s healthcare system. It didn’t matter to them that the legislation passed was greatly flawed, because they understand that once passed, an entitlement program is NEVER rescinded in this country. Political fallout from it? Who cares? Let a Republican take the Whitehouse back in 2012. They know Obamacare will never be repealed. Republicans have never removed an entitlement. They don’t have the political guts. They’ll be too worried about getting reelected in ’16.

 

And so it goes; another program increasing the dependency of the American people on their government comes to be, comes to stay.

 

Or has it? Maybe, just maybe, the straw that broke the American camel’s back has finally fallen on the midsection of this country, and we’ve had enough. Maybe, just maybe, the resolve of those Americans who still believe in self-reliance, those who understand the inherent tyranny that has accompanied virtually every form of human government since the dawn of civilization, will stand up and say “Enough. I’m done. I can rule myself. I can determine what type of light bulb to use. I can find my own health insurance. I can make sure the public schools in my community are successful. I can care for the elderly in my family. I can burn real wood in my freaking fireplace if I feel like it!”

 

Has that straw fallen?

Well, it is California...

 

I was thinking the same thing.

Agreed. If true capitolism had been allowed to take place, the banks, GM, etc... would have failed as they should have. Crony Capitolism does NOT work. Capitolism DOES work.

 

Tell me what the economy would have looked like if that had happened? If many of the banks failed and I lost my savings and the stockholders lost all of their investment, how could that have been a good thing? I think people who make these statements don't truly understand the repercussions of these events. When was the last time major banks failed . . . wasn't it around 1929? That turned our really well for everyone didn't it?

More violence. Class envy at its finest. http://news.yahoo.com/oakland-tense-police-protesters-clash-100606437.html

Looks like ACORN is back:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/26/exclusive-acorn-playing-behind-scenes-role-in-occupy-movement/

 

Ok, so ACORN and unions are involved, makes you wonder who else is orchestrating this, doesn't it?

This is a good interview that shows an educated opinion on the side of the OWS supporters.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAhHPIuTQ5k

"Don't take this the wrong way but you sound like a left-wing nutbar."

 

Uhh, how was he supposed to take that one?

 

Remember, when someone says "don't take this the wrong way...." a negative comment about you is forthcoming.

Strong read here. Writer says it's absurd to call the protesters purveyors of class envy.

 

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/owss-beef-wall-street-isnt-winning-its-cheating-20111025

"Don't take this the wrong way but you sound like a left-wing nutbar."

 

Uhh, how was he supposed to take that one?

 

Remember, when someone says "don't take this the wrong way...." a negative comment about you is forthcoming.

Right up there with "With all due respect...."

Right up there with "With all due respect...."

 

I actually used that one today with someone and what followed wasn't good for that person.

Strong read here. Writer says it's absurd to call the protesters purveyors of class envy.

 

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/owss-beef-wall-street-isnt-winning-its-cheating-20111025

 

I don't put much stock in him, he tends to make statements for which he can't have facts to back them up.

For anyone interested, here is a declaration from them, kind of all over the place:

 

“As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

 

As one people, formerly… divided by the color of our skin, gender, sexual orientation, religion, or lack thereof, political party and cultural background, we acknowledge the reality: that there is only one race, the human race, and our survival requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their brethren; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

 

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.

They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give CEO’s exorbitant bonuses.

They have perpetuated gender inequality and discrimination in the workplace.

They have poisoned the food supply, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.

They have continuously sought to end the rights of workers to negotiate their pay and make complaints about the safety of their workplace.

They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.

They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.

They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.

They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.

They have sold our privacy as a commodity.

They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.

They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.

They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.

They have donated large sums of money to politicians supposed to be regulating them.

They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.

They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantive profit.

They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty book keeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.

They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.

They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.

They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.

They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.

They have participated in a directly racist action by accepting the contract from the State of Georgia to murder Troy Davis.

They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.

To the people of the world: We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power. Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

 

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy: We offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

 

Join us and make your voices heard!”

I don't put much stock in him, he tends to make statements for which he can't have facts to back them up.

 

Tends to?

 

Which ones in this particular article do you doubt?

Tends to?

 

Which ones in this particular article do you doubt?

 

Most of them. I have no intention of hitting his blog again and creating income for him. Three from memory:

 

Something about paying less than an auto mechanic-you think he can back that up? Do you believe it?

 

Something about the rate they pay being half of the average protestor which would put them about 30%. You think he can back that up? Do you believe the average protestor is in the 30% income tax bracket?

 

Something about them not being against money, just the corruption. Read their declaration I posted above. Doesn't seem to fit.

I actually used that one today with someone and what followed wasn't good for that person.

It never is nor can it be. One of my favorite lines from Talladega Nights.