Doesn't he end the payroll tax with his plan? If so, that's 7.65 from both employer and employee. That's going to offset a lot of the sales tax effect but how do they figure social security into the equation? I would love to see some revenue projections.

 

One set of projections I saw had 9-9-9 falling short of current revenue by about $300-$400 billion.

 

From what I've read, the 9-9-9 is just the first phase of Cain's plan. The second phase would be transitioning to the full fair tax/national sales tax, thus eliminating all income taxes.

So with this plan, a person may have to pay upwards of 14 to 15% tax on any and all items? What about food?

 

Does that also mean that with the restaurant meals taxes of some localities, a meal could have a tax bill of 18 to 20%?

 

I'm not against the plan, just trying to figure out what it really effects. One thing is for sure, the poor waiter/waitress better expect lower tips and thereby lower pay on that job.

 

Initially, it wouldn't be 14%-15%, but over time I believe it would be that, or very likely higher than that.

 

I also believe the 9% income tax is applied on all income minus charitable contributions.

http://axdwhiteman.info/index.php/component/content/article/102-can-herman-cains-999-plan-work

 

There's a lot in here that made my head hurt trying to understand. And this is obviously from some pro-Cain people. But in the first box it shows revenue under 9-9-9 falling short by $387 billion of its current status. The second box factors in a 10% growth rate, thus increasing revenue. In that scenario the 9-9-9 falls short of current revenue by just over $50 billion.

Initially, it wouldn't be 14%-15%, but over time I believe it would be that, or very likely higher than that.

 

I also believe the 9% income tax is applied on all income minus charitable contributions.

 

I believe Hatz was including the state & local sales taxes. In some places you would be looking at around 20% sales tax on an item.

I believe Hatz was including the state & local sales taxes. In some places you would be looking at around 20% sales tax on an item.

 

You're absolutely right. I forgot about that. I was thinking exclusively of the national sales tax.

 

If I'm reading right, the first phase of the plan is 9% income tax, 9% corporate tax, & 9% national sales tax/fair tax.

 

Phase two of the plan completely removes the income & corporate taxes (as well as the "permanent holiday" from the payroll tax) & then goes full bore into a national sales tax/fair tax system. IRS would be completely eliminated in phase two.

I believe Hatz was including the state & local sales taxes. In some places you would be looking at around 20% sales tax on an item.

 

:thumb: We have 5% state and 4% meals added to the area. That's 9% plus the 9 or 10 % for National and that's how I arrived at the above. I think. :confused:

Does this "999 plan" come with any definite spending cuts?

Here is some info in the results of the 9-9-9 plan.

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/oct/18/herman-cain/herman-cain-says-9-9-9-plan-does-not-raise-taxes-t/

^ From the article:

 

The Tax Policy Center analyzed Cain’s plan using the same type of models it has used to examine other national tax proposals.

 

The analysis found that Cain’s tax plan would result in tax cuts for many of the wealthiest tax payers and tax increases for the poorest tax payers.

 

The center found that 83.8 percent of tax filers would get a tax increase under Cain’s plan, compared with current tax policy.

 

On the other hand, most of the tax filers who make more than $1 million would get a tax cut under the Cain plan, about 95.4 percent of this high income group. And the average tax cut for millionaires would be $487,300.

 

 

 

 

Anyone else besides me totally shocked that this plan is getting a lot of GOP/conservative support?

^ From the article:

 

The Tax Policy Center analyzed Cain’s plan using the same type of models it has used to examine other national tax proposals.

 

The analysis found that Cain’s tax plan would result in tax cuts for many of the wealthiest tax payers and tax increases for the poorest tax payers.

 

The center found that 83.8 percent of tax filers would get a tax increase under Cain’s plan, compared with current tax policy.

 

On the other hand, most of the tax filers who make more than $1 million would get a tax cut under the Cain plan, about 95.4 percent of this high income group. And the average tax cut for millionaires would be $487,300.

 

 

 

 

Anyone else besides me totally shocked that this plan is getting a lot of GOP/conservative support?

 

We are all looking for anything that is simpler and I think that's what catches people's attention. I think those that are supporting it are supporting it more as a concept than an actual plan to implement as it seems to be filled with questions if not flat out tax increases on many.

 

The concept is workable. It's just this particular plan that doesn't seem capable of working.

Edited October 19, 201114 yr by mcpapa

First of all, Cain is just wrong in saying this doesn't increase taxes on those who make the least. If someone isn't paying any income taxes at all, they're obviously going to have to pay under a 9-9-9 plan. I personally think everyone should be paying something, but for Cain to say it doesn't raise taxes on some is just inaccurate.

 

What I think is hard to project is the national sales tax aspect of the 9-9-9. I would think that those who consume/purchase more (i.e. the wealthy) would do more of their tax "contributing" that way, right?

Anyone else besides me totally shocked that this plan is getting a lot of GOP/conservative support?

Not shocked at all. To me it fits in with the current GOP. It's designed to be simple, easy to say and can give GOP supporters a catch phrase to quote to their friends. It's also easily deduced that the plan would tax the "poor" who are currently not paying taxes which is something the majority of the GOP rants against.

 

I'm not "opposed" to a national tax. But spending should be priority #1 and until it's addressed a national tax isn't a workable solution.

First of all, Cain is just wrong in saying this doesn't increase taxes on those who make the least. If someone isn't paying any income taxes at all, they're obviously going to have to pay under a 9-9-9 plan. I personally think everyone should be paying something, but for Cain to say it doesn't raise taxes on some is just inaccurate.

 

What I think is hard to project is the national sales tax aspect of the 9-9-9. I would think that those who consume/purchase more (i.e. the wealthy) would do more of their tax "contributing" that way, right?

I don't think it is as cut and dry as anyone not paying income tax currently will start paying. According to Cain's website his plan will eliminate all payroll tax. To me that means SS and Medicare as well. If so that is over 6% on it's own that everyone is currently paying.

Haven't done any research. Have a question. If this 999 thing is indeed a flat tax rate, how does it have a greater impact on lower income people. Is it that most low income pay either a small amount or no income taxes at all?

Haven't done any research. Have a question. If this 999 thing is indeed a flat tax rate, how does it have a greater impact on lower income people. Is it that most low income pay either a small amount or no income taxes at all?

 

Yes.

 

Woodsrider, though, makes a valid point about the possible elimination of the payroll tax under 9-9-9.