I agree, Watusi. The top echelon of A rivals that of 2A, but the advantage is with 2A the farther you travel down the list ... as it should be, with the enrollment disparity.

 

The bottom line ... 2A is probably weaker than it should be. It's closer to A than 3A, and that's what many people that staunchly defend 2A don't realize. The mere fact that we have an A-2A debate every year is a strong indication of that.

 

The only reason we have a "debate every year" is... many of the former 2A strong "traditional" teams are now in 1A.

 

If one compared the Big-10 and Big-12 in college football, one would HAVE to say the Big-10 is stronger. Now, say Ohio State changed conferences to the Big-12. Would that, in and of itself, make the Big-12 stronger ?? (note: we're talking >40 teams in each size classification, ie "conference", in KY football !!)

 

I'd say many would claim it WOULD make the Big-12 the stronger conference, though I'd suggest the truth is otherwise.....(even though yes, losing OSU would make the Big-10 "weaker than it should be"...)

It may be considered bad sportsmanship to water down your field, but it definitely is not cheating. That is going too far. It is the home team responsible for field conditions and they have a LOT of lee-way. Over watering, covering the field, drying it with a helicopter, dumping sand, mowing the grass or leaving it long, are all ways of manipulating the playing surface. All within the rules.

 

There are a lot of coaches out there who cheat in one way or another, but altering field conditions, even if going to the extreme, is not one of them.

 

Sorry I let myself go down this path because it is not on topic of this thread. We can discuss the field altering topic in another thread. Lets let this one get back on track. :thumb:

 

 

ROFL.......at drying with a helicopter. Did someone really try to do that?????

Don't laugh, I've seen it. :thumb:

Who cares about 1986? If you look at the thread, its says 10-15 years. 1986 does not fall within either of those categories!

The only reason we have a "debate every year" is... many of the former 2A strong "traditional" teams are now in 1A.

 

If one compared the Big-10 and Big-12 in college football, one would HAVE to say the Big-10 is stronger. Now, say Ohio State changed conferences to the Big-12. Would that, in and of itself, make the Big-12 stronger ?? (note: we're talking >40 teams in each size classification, ie "conference", in KY football !!)

 

I'd say many would claim it WOULD make the Big-12 the stronger conference, though I'd suggest the truth is otherwise.....(even though yes, losing OSU would make the Big-10 "weaker than it should be"...)

I don't agree with your premise, and your analogy doesn't really apply here.

 

If 3A was weaker than it should be or 2A was particulary strong, we would have a 2A-3A debate every season. The mere fact that we have such a constant A-2A debate on here is evidence that 2A is a relatively weak class.

I don't agree with your premise, and your analogy doesn't really apply here.

 

If 3A was weaker than it should be or 2A was particulary strong, we would have a 2A-3A debate every season. The mere fact that we have such a constant A-2A debate on here is evidence that 2A is a relatively weak class.

 

West,

 

I agree with you.

 

One i joe, there are good 2A teams that have dropped into 1A and there are good 2A teams that have moved up to 3A. There hasn't been that many drop into or move into 2A recently.

 

Now if Highlands drops to 2A and Danville, NCC, Lex. Chrisitan, Mayfield, and Bardstown move up to 2A we probably would not be having the 2A vs 1A discussion anymore.

West,

 

I agree with you.

 

One i joe, there are good 2A teams that have dropped into 1A and there are good 2A teams that have moved up to 3A. There hasn't been that many drop into or move into 2A recently.

 

Now if Highlands drops to 2A and Danville, NCC, Lex. Chrisitan, Mayfield, and Bardstown move up to 2A we probably would not be having the 2A vs 1A discussion anymore.

 

LOL... You can agree with westsider if you want, but you've just re-inforced MY take on it. :lol:

 

"...there are good 2A teams that have dropped into 1A and there are good 2A teams that have moved up to 3A. There hasn't been that many drop into or move into 2A recently."

 

This is almost EXACTLY what I was pointing out... :sssh: :thumb:

...The mere fact that we have such a constant A-2A debate on here is evidence that 2A is a relatively weak class.

 

You really think that ?? :sssh:

 

So then, does this also mean the thread entitled, "Could the best team in KY actually be outside of Louisville???" implies Louisville's Big 3 "isn't what it should be" ?!?

 

Now...with that said...in '05, the Massey numbers for the first time in at least 3 yrs show 2A without a winning % advantage in intra-class games:

 

Class...wins...losses...winning%

 

4A...87...49... 64%

3A...90...104.. 46%

2A...94...100.. 48%

1A...98...100.. 49%

 

:bunny:

You really think that ?? :sssh:

 

So then, does this also mean the thread entitled, "Could the best team in KY actually be outside of Louisville???" implies Louisville's Big 3 "isn't what it should be" ?!?

 

Now...with that said...in '05, the Massey numbers for the first time in at least 3 yrs show 2A without a winning % advantage in intra-class games:

 

Class...wins...losses...winning%

 

4A...87...49... 64%

3A...90...104.. 46%

2A...94...100.. 48%

1A...98...100.. 49%

The raw numbers mean little ... too many variables at play in teams' schedules.

 

Oneijoe, you're entitled to your opinion. but if 2A was a really strong class, there wouldn't be a widespread A-2A debate every year.

You really think that ?? :sssh:

 

So then, does this also mean the thread entitled, "Could the best team in KY actually be outside of Louisville???" implies Louisville's Big 3 "isn't what it should be" ?!?

 

Now...with that said...in '05, the Massey numbers for the first time in at least 3 yrs show 2A without a winning % advantage in intra-class games:

 

Class...wins...losses...winning%

 

4A...87...49... 64%

3A...90...104.. 46%

2A...94...100.. 48%

1A...98...100.. 49%

 

:bunny:

 

Those intra-class games are not a measure of class strength. If the 10 worse Class A teams played the 10 best AA teams I would expect AA to be 10-0. Likewise, if the 10 best A teams played the 10 worst AA teams I would expect A to be 10-0.

LOL... You can agree with westsider if you want, but you've just re-inforced MY take on it. :lol:

 

"...there are good 2A teams that have dropped into 1A and there are good 2A teams that have moved up to 3A. There hasn't been that many drop into or move into 2A recently."

 

This is almost EXACTLY what I was pointing out... :sssh: :thumb:

 

 

You were pointing out that as time goes by 2A gets weaker and weaker with good teams going down to 1A and good teams moving up to 3A????

 

Because thats what I was pointing out.

You were pointing out that as time goes by 2A gets weaker and weaker with good teams going down to 1A and good teams moving up to 3A????

 

Because thats what I was pointing out.

There have also been good teams move down from 3A to 2A. The reason, in my opinion, that 2A is considered to be weaker is that most of the powers that are now in 2A are not in Central or Northern Kentucky. Russell, Belfry, and Breathitt Co have won the last 4 2A state title and none of them get the state wide coverage or are in a large media market. The same could be said for the west. The teams in Owensboro and far western KY do not get the same state wide attention as the teams that are located in the Northern and Central parts of the state.

"The raw numbers mean little ... too many variables at play in teams' schedules."

 

"Those intra-class games are not a measure of class strength. If the 10 worse Class A teams played the 10 best AA teams I would expect AA to be 10-0. Likewise, if the 10 best A teams played the 10 worst AA teams I would expect A to be 10-0."

 

____________________________________________________

 

 

I don't accept the info is of "no value". Why should we dismiss the only objective information dealing with this issue .... ??

 

I invite you both to present your own objective data instead of re-stating popularly held "opinion". Repeating the same thing over and over makes it no more true...

There have also been good teams move down from 3A to 2A. The reason, in my opinion, that 2A is considered to be weaker is that most of the powers that are now in 2A are not in Central or Northern Kentucky. Russell, Belfry, and Breathitt Co have won the last 4 2A state title and none of them get the state wide coverage or are in a large media market. The same could be said for the west. The teams in Owensboro and far western KY do not get the same state wide attention as the teams that are located in the Northern and Central parts of the state.

 

Agreed... :thumb:

Personally, I think 2A over the last 15 years is stronger than class A. If 2A had been in the current alignment for 15 years, then it would be a closer argument. But the fact that Boyle, Danville, and LexCath were in 2A for a decent part of that time, along with Breathitt, Belfry and others gives 2A a bit of an edge.