I understand that around the state their are in some cases county schools residing very near independent schools. One case is Johnson Central is a stones throw from Paintsville Hugh School. There are cases like this all over the state. First, I wonder why the indepenents schools are needed. Wouldn't it make more sense to consolidate? Also, I understand that kids from outside the boundries of these independent schools can pay tuition and attend. My information tells me that the tuition ranges in the 2,000 to 3,000 dollar range, true or false? If this is the case how does the independet school make up the shortfall, as most school systems claim the annual cost per student to be in the 8,000 to 9,000 dollar range? No disrespect to independent school districts, but in these times of fiscal difficulties why not just operate one school? :confused:

No disrespect to independent school districts, but in these times of fiscal difficulties why not just operate one school? :confused:

 

I would assume because the community wants to. Simple as that.

I would assume because the community wants to. Simple as that.

Do independent schools recieve any state or federal tax dollars? If the snswer is yes it renders you explanation powerless. In many cities and counties schools are closed and combined, hardly ever does it happen with the support of those involved. Even before Louisville and Jefferson County merged the schools systems did. Why? Money $$$.

Do independent schools recieve any state or federal tax dollars? If the snswer is yes it renders you explanation powerless. In many cities and counties schools are closed and combined, hardly ever does it happen with the support of those involved. Even before Louisville and Jefferson County merged the schools systems did. Why? Money $$$.

 

Independent School systems do receive state tax money.

Do independent schools recieve any state or federal tax dollars? If the snswer is yes it renders you explanation powerless. In many cities and counties schools are closed and combined, hardly ever does it happen with the support of those involved. Even before Louisville and Jefferson County merged the schools systems did. Why? Money $$$.

 

Small independent school districts continue to survive in Kentucky because communities are fiercely loyal to them. The districts have strong historical ties, especially in Northern Kentucky's Ohio River towns.

 

"Independent districts could not stay in existence without a strong ongoing local support," said Brad Hughes, a spokesman of the Kentucky Board of Education.

 

And nowhere is that notion of community identity more apparent than in Northern Kentucky, with 14 school districts in three counties. Campbell County has seven school systems; Kenton County has five; and Boone County has two. Throughout the state, 56 of 176 school districts are small independent districts.

 

Though small, they often have strong community and alumni support, Hughes said.

 

"In many cases small independent districts are the last vestiges of community identity," he said. "In some of the communities, especially there in Northern Kentucky, they view that as not just a part of their heritage, but a part of their future. Newport, Fort Thomas and Beechwood come to mind."

 

Still, state officials have pondered what savings could be achieved with fewer school districts.

 

"The statute says in order for two districts to merge, the school boards have to come to an agreement," said Lisa Gross, spokeswoman for the Kentucky Department of Education. "

 

"We're not encouraging it. It's a local decision."

 

http://www.kypost.com/2004/12/31/mergers123104.html

Independent School systems do receive state tax money.

So I'm guessing that they are subject to forced merger (or absorption) if the budget process dictates.

As this debate over private/public is developing and a compromise is sought, independent schools should also be considered. Do they have a built-in advantage that tilts the competitive balance. Yes/No, Not sure. But in the fairness of the debate, advantages of ALL should be looked at and considered.

A lot of Independent schools reply on the property tax revenue and coal severance money in coal producing counties, to help supplement and offset funding.

 

In addition, many Independents are "A" and have less than 350 enrollment, so there costs are not as great, as AA, AAA or AAAA, simply from less wages, insurance and total operating costs.

 

Include fund-raising, athletic income, alumni groups and donations to help defray costs, along with tuition's. I do not believe the $2,000-$3,000 dollar amounts for tuition, are accurate at Johnson Central or Paintsville. Paintsville has been around since 1880's and Johnson Central in 60's.

 

Jenkins is another school in Eastern KY, that is an Independent and relies on similar funding, plus they went to a 4-day school week, to help save revenue and reduce spending.

 

Schools mentioned in Campbell, Kenton and Boone county would have a larger tax base to generate property taxes from, since the population is generally large than schools in Eastern KY and like All Play said, the communities are generally very, very loyal to these schools.

A lot of Independent schools reply on the property tax revenue and coal severance money in coal producing counties, to help supplement and offset funding.

 

In addition, many Independents are "A" and have less than 350 enrollment, so there costs are not as great, as AA, AAA or AAAA, simply from less wages, insurance and total operating costs.

 

Include fund-raising, athletic income, alumni groups and donations to help defray costs, along with tuition's. I do not believe the $2,000-$3,000 dollar amounts for tuition, are accurate at Johnson Central or Paintsville. Paintsville has been around since 1880's and Johnson Central in 60's.

 

Jenkins is another school in Eastern KY, that is an Independent and relies on similar funding, plus they went to a 4-day school week, to help save revenue and reduce spending.

 

Schools mentioned in Campbell, Kenton and Boone county would have a larger tax base to generate property taxes from, since the population is generally large than schools in Eastern KY and like All Play said, the communities are generally very, very loyal to these schools.

Could you imagine the sports teams if Paintsville and Central combined? WOW! That basketball team would be loaded. Paintsville really does a great job with the number of students they have. The qulity of coaching there is great!

Could you imagine the sports teams if Paintsville and Central combined? WOW! That basketball team would be loaded. Paintsville really does a great job with the number of students they have. The quality of coaching there is great!

Once consolidation is considered in many counties, the discussion of busing, administration retention, teacher terminations, daily operations, new facility construction and location are major issues, like was faced in Letcher County (Whitesburg, Neon and Letcher).

 

The cost to construct facilities, like the recent Belfry and Letcher County schools were estimated $15-$20 mil and that is with state funding assistance. In today's times, that kind of money can't always be allocated by our government to consolidate Independents with others.

 

Athletically it can help in some instances, while I personally believe it would hurt and here is my reason....If a Class "A" school of 300 has a football team of 30-40 and they consolidate with a Class "AAAA" of 1,500 and they have 60-70 players, if those are combined into one school, some of these student-athletes will no longer have the opportunity to play and would be left by the wayside.

 

Some would argue, than only the "best" would play and perhaps so, but not everyone develops at the same time and some "late-bloomers" may never get the chance, in the 10th/11th grade to participate.

 

Pro's and con's to both sides and I believe the Harlan-Cumberland area, is experiencing some of the similar problems, in discussion on consolidation in those areas. Keep in mind, that consolidation usually means 1 or more schools, which will no either be abandoned or used as Elem./Middle Schools or perhaps not at all but where do the teachers, administrators go that aren't retained...they usually leave with their families, to another location.

I understand that around the state their are in some cases county schools residing very near independent schools. One case is Johnson Central is a stones throw from Paintsville Hugh School. There are cases like this all over the state. First, I wonder why the indepenents schools are needed. Wouldn't it make more sense to consolidate? Also, I understand that kids from outside the boundries of these independent schools can pay tuition and attend. My information tells me that the tuition ranges in the 2,000 to 3,000 dollar range, true or false? If this is the case how does the independet school make up the shortfall, as most school systems claim the annual cost per student to be in the 8,000 to 9,000 dollar range? No disrespect to independent school districts, but in these times of fiscal difficulties why not just operate one school? :confused:

 

Listen,

 

Independents are independent because most of them came before their County neighbors and I would like anyone to challenge that. I'm not sure how the burocrasy has shaped school systems in the past 100 years but I would venture to guess that some of these districts were started in these cities.

 

For the LAST time Independents TAX their own population, and BY THE WAY benefit from the same SEEK formula that county districts made reality.

 

The argument that these schools should consoildate might make sense in some cases but most of these local "city" schools will keep it the way it is....

Once consolidation is considered in many counties, the discussion of busing, administration retention, teacher terminations, daily operations, new facility construction and location are major issues, like was faced in Letcher County (Whitesburg, Neon and Letcher).

 

The cost to construct facilities, like the recent Belfry and Letcher County schools were estimated $15-$20 mil and that is with state funding assistance. In today's times, that kind of money can't always be allocated by our government to consolidate Independents with others.

 

Athletically it can help in some instances, while I personally believe it would hurt and here is my reason....If a Class "A" school of 300 has a football team of 30-40 and they consolidate with a Class "AAAA" of 1,500 and they have 60-70 players, if those are combined into one school, some of these student-athletes will no longer have the opportunity to play and would be left by the wayside.

 

Some would argue, than only the "best" would play and perhaps so, but not everyone develops at the same time and some "late-bloomers" may never get the chance, in the 10th/11th grade to participate.

 

Pro's and con's to both sides and I believe the Harlan-Cumberland area, is experiencing some of the similar problems, in discussion on consolidation in those areas. Keep in mind, that consolidation usually means 1 or more schools, which will no either be abandoned or used as Elem./Middle Schools or perhaps not at all but where do the teachers, administrators go that aren't retained...they usually leave with their families, to another location.

 

Nice post with a lot of good points. The bottom line if they ever tried to consolidate a lot of these schools then there would be massive problems. Most Independant schools I know of have a rich tradition and is loved by their small communities. Most people I know of would go nuts at the thought of consolidating with their rival schools! On the flip side if you took a school like Ashland/Boyd Co and put them together then I don't think you would have the 4A schools frustrated about playing schools like Trinity and X. The numbers would now be equal and then there is no fingers to point. Before people jump the gun I know athletics dosen't drive everything a school does, just stating a fact.

Nice post with a lot of good points. The bottom line if they ever tried to consolidate a lot of these schools then there would be massive problems. Most Independant schools I know of have a rich tradition and is loved by their small communities. Most people I know of would go nuts at the thought of consolidating with their rival schools! On the flip side if you took a school like Ashland/Boyd Co and put them together then I don't think you would have the 4A schools frustrated about playing schools like Trinity and X. The numbers would now be equal and then there is no fingers to point. Before people jump the gun I know athletics dosen't drive everything a school does, just stating a fact.

Thanks Stick and very good example with Boyd and Ashland....if consolidation happened with schools already this size, than athletically they could perhaps contend for many titles in various sports, both male and female, since they are already similar in class size.

 

There would be the same drawbacks about those left out but I have often wondered, is that why the AAA and AAAA schools are more successful in football and basketball, since they can choose from players that can "specialize" for lack of a better word, in one sport and athletes of equal talent play other sports and their never seems to be a drop off, while in A or AA, most athletes play multiple sports and are often relied on in each.

 

I guess numbers to select from, certainly be an advantage in some areas and sports, just from range of size and athleticism to choose from.

Due to the location of both Russell and Greenup county. I would hate to see a merger there. We, in the Flatwoods and Russell area are in close proximity to all of the school from the primary thru the High school. If we consolidated my children would have to travel a long distance and spend a undue amount of time on the bus just to get to school. The population of Russell/Flatwoods dictates a school be in the area. The majority of Greenup Co. is to spread out to effectively handle all of the students in the county.

As this debate over private/public is developing and a compromise is sought, independent schools should also be considered. Do they have a built-in advantage that tilts the competitive balance. Yes/No, Not sure. But in the fairness of the debate, advantages of ALL should be looked at and considered.

 

What is that built in advantage? And for the love of Jesus, please don't say the ability to take out of district players because as you KNOW FULL AND WELL, any public school can do the same. Thus, with every school having the same ability to accept out of district students, the fact that one school does it and another does not, does not give the school doing it a "built in advantage".

 

So what is the built in advantage you are referring to?