No you do, it never said in the article anyone was forced to pray or sing, you said it trying to manipulate the conversation into making it look like you are right. You sir are the one who continues to prove what is wrong in this country.

 

I take my hat off as does my son for the national anthem, but you would be the one who would oppose to taking your hat off because of your political self rightous correctness. I really wish your kind would move out of the country. You should be a lawyer or spokesman for the ACLU so you can help destroy the morals and personal rights of Christians.

 

 

Let's summarize your inability to comprehend issues.

 

You said that simply because most of the people in the US are Christian that we should ignore the concept of separation of church and state. In your little simpleton world most votes win. Yet you never responded to my analogy that your logic would also say that blacks could not drive through Cobb County, GA if most of the citizens voted for such a law.

 

You then compounded your problem with trying to compare law and elections. High school kids can figure out the error in your thinking.

 

You then try to generalize that anyone who believes in the Constitution in this area hates Christianity. Classic move by someone who is ill-informed and incapable of discernment.

 

You then try to use an analogy of being in church and choosing not to sing to SOMEHOW prove that's the same as being in school and not being Christian yet being forced to stand while a Christian prayer is said. 8th-grade debate class students can figure out the flaw in that logic.

 

When challenged yet once again on your intelligence on this issue you then try to correlate religion with the country's National Anthem. Game. Set. Match.

 

If you say that I'm what's wrong with this country then you, sir, do not believe in the Constitution . You want it when it's in agreement with your lifestyle.

 

We can agree on one point. I AM making it look like I am right for a simple reason. I am.

Who in this thread do we think would be the first to SCREAM from the tops of the mountain should a Muslim-American teacher in a public school force his/her students to stand and recite a Muslim prayer to start the school day - even if it's in Dearborn,MI where there are huge pockets of Muslims who practice that religion even if 99 out of 100 were Muslim?

 

Any guesses?

The word FORCE, who is forced to pray in school, who was forced to pray at a graduation. Another good way to try an manipulate the topic. FORCED, hahahaha.

 

No one is forced to pray that I have ever known. I obviously would not send my kid to a school that had to recite the Koran since he is a Christian and not a believer in Islam. But if he did he would have enough sense to not go out and complain (unlike some) YOU and he would just go on with his normal day.

 

Was that little old granny forced to pray at the graduation? NO

Was she forced to look at the cross or religious symbols? NO

Was I ever forced to pray at school? NO

Is anyone forced to take their hat off for the Nat. anthem? NO

 

NO ONE is FORCED to do anything!!!

 

You do a great job of trying to manipulate the other posters into thinking you are right, glad I am not them.

Like i said earlier, you would be a great spokesman for the ACLU.

 

I bet you would be for making churches be built in the woods so no one would be forced into having to see them from the road and in turn have to hide them.

Who in this thread do we think would be the first to SCREAM from the tops of the mountain should a Muslim-American teacher in a public school force his/her students to stand and recite a Muslim prayer to start the school day - even if it's in Dearborn,MI where there are huge pockets of Muslims who practice that religion even if 99 out of 100 were Muslim?

 

Any guesses?

 

A valiant effort, Clyde, but a losing battle.

 

I bet you would be for making churches be built in the woods so no one would be forced into having to see them from the road and in turn have to hide them.

 

A lot of people steer clear of the P&R forum because of ignorance.

 

The above is why. No substance. No evidence to back up an asinine claim. Pejoratives galore.

A lot of people steer clear of the P&R forum because of ignorance.

 

The above is why. No substance. No evidence to back up an asinine claim. Pejoratives galore.

 

The same can be said for you too.

 

If no one agrees with you then you quick to condemn them too.

 

I noticed you never said anything back about saying FORCED, where did it say people were FORCED in the article or anywhere? Or was it to try to convince yourself you are right.

 

As for the church hiding in the wood, IT IS AN EXAMPLE, but you use it to actually seem to think I am serious. The reason peole steeer clear is no one wants to have to be belittled by you for having an opposing view.

 

So tell me about those people being forced to pray at graduation or in school. I cant wait to see you back it up, or do you have No evidence to back up an asinine claim. Pejoratives galore.

You also have proven to not have an open mind on opposing views, as to only thinking your is correct. If 99 people want something and 1 dont, then you are for taking from the 99 so you can be self righteous and say we all have to be fair. hahaha, they world is not fair.

You also have proven to not have an open mind on opposing views, as to only thinking your is correct. If 99 people want something and 1 dont, then you are for taking from the 99 so you can be self righteous and say we all have to be fair. hahaha, they world is not fair.

 

So in your logic above, if the majority feel the enslavement of some in society is okay, then it must be okay? Majority rules rather than justice. Am I missing that here?

 

As to Clyde ignoring your rant about "forced" at least he didn't declare every human a hypocrite and refuse to deal with the scriptures themselves and Jesus statement on how to pray which let's us see clearly that much of public prayer that is outside of worship is "lip service, empty and hollow" in the sight of God.

I've trotted this out on occasion. I can think of no better piece of literature to illustrate the continued importance of the ACLU.

 

In Germany they first came for the Communists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

 

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

 

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

 

Then they came for the Catholics,

and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

 

Then they came for me —

and by that time no one was left to speak up.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

I am with you, bring back lead based paint! After all it was those dang bureaucrats that took it away from us...

 

There are areas that government should seek to resolve quickly, such as safety and discrimination. The areas I listed are items that individuals should be allowed to make, not government.

There is a need for responsible government, it should be our partner not our domineering parent.

I've trotted this out on occasion. I can think of no better piece of literature to illustrate the continued importance of the ACLU.

 

In Germany they first came for the Communists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

 

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

 

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

 

Then they came for the Catholics,

and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

 

Then they came for me —

and by that time no one was left to speak up.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

 

As useless as the rest of this thread has proven, at least your quote inspired me to do a little research on Pastor Martin Niemoller. :thumb:

The same can be said for you too.

 

If no one agrees with you then you quick to condemn them too.

 

I noticed you never said anything back about saying FORCED, where did it say people were FORCED in the article or anywhere? Or was it to try to convince yourself you are right.

 

As for the church hiding in the wood, IT IS AN EXAMPLE, but you use it to actually seem to think I am serious. The reason peole steeer clear is no one wants to have to be belittled by you for having an opposing view.

 

So tell me about those people being forced to pray at graduation or in school. I cant wait to see you back it up, or do you have No evidence to back up an asinine claim. Pejoratives galore.

 

From the beginning you have shown that you are incapable of using logic. If that is what you mean by "condemn" then consider yourself condemned by me. It has nothing to do with the fact we disagree. Sometimes (sadly not in this case) there is genuine intelligent debate between people that disagree. In those cases the debate stems from a difference in opinion over an issue. Is mandatory healthcare good or bad? Should the "rich" pay more taxes? Conceptual/idealistic debates that have good arguments from both sides.

 

You, though, want insist something should be simply because the majority wants it. That's not even something that is fun to debate because we can all think of many examples where it simply defies logic (Cobb County, for example). You then keep struggling to keep up with the actual points being made. You are hanging your hat on "forced" when it's not the central issue and never has been the central issue of this debate.

 

Sadly, I could take your side and come up with a more intelligent debate AGAINST ME.

 

I bet you would be for making churches be built in the woods so no one would be forced into having to see them from the road and in turn have to hide them.

 

I fully understood the accusation you are making in your example. Because I believe in the constitutional court-approved decision that separation of church and state includes prayer at public schools I must then be anit-religion or anti-Christianity. I'll pray for your ignorance tomorrow morning when I'm in my usual spot at church.

 

Now that I've answered the question you've accused me of dodging please answer my Cobb County example. You would surely support a community's right to ban blacks from driving through their town if the vote was 99 to 1, correct?

Cobb Co is totally different, it is in a public place, the graduation is in a church. no where in the laws or constitution does it say a group has to take down a religious sign in a church because 1 old atheist doesnt agree.

 

I appreciate the prayer and will be the first to say I need them and thank you (if sincere)

You also have proven to not have an open mind on opposing views, as to only thinking your is correct. If 99 people want something and 1 dont, then you are for taking from the 99 so you can be self righteous and say we all have to be fair. hahaha, they world is not fair.

 

The Supreme Court ruled against you awhile ago. Look up the case Lee vs Weisman.

 

Summary of the case: A principal wanted a rabbi to speak at his schools graduation ceremony. A father disagreed and filed law suit. It made its way to the Supreme court. Supreme Court ruled that having a rabbi in public school violates the state sponsored religious exercise in Pubic schools.

 

1 man didn't like something that maybe a majority of the population didn't mind. But he got his way.