May 27, 201115 yr Yes, but still by trying to defend one who is a non-believer in whatever, they disrimanate agaisnt the rest of the majority. If there are 100 people going to graduation and 1 of them disagrees with a cross being hung, then is it right to have the other 99 who like or agree with it to have to do without? Isnt that discrimination. Are you new to this country? You're saying we should now govern based off of the feelings of the majority regardless of the debate?
May 27, 201115 yr http://www.aclufightsforchristians.com/ http://friendlyatheist.com/2011/03/01/aclu-of-virginia-defends-christian-students/ http://www.aclu.org/aclu-defense-religious-practice-and-expression
May 27, 201115 yr Author Are you new to this country? You're saying we should now govern based off of the feelings of the majority regardless of the debate? Govern for the majority, well yes, since the majority rules. The ACLU debate is not to be a rule to govern by. If 100 people go to a graduation and 1 person objects to a prayer, should the other 99 have to do without because of 1 person? Those 99 want it, but the ACLU goes to court for that 1 person and has it fixed so that there is no prayer. Is that not infringing on those 99 peoples rights? Is that the way we should govern?
May 27, 201115 yr Like many institutions and businesses the ACLU has outlived its usefullness. They have become an anti-common sense organization with no understanding of the original intent of the Constitution, as set forth by our Founding Fathers. Otherwise known as political correctness. Mt Ref, they have accomplished good things in the past, but today the ACLU stands for all that is wrong in this country, defending many forms of pervasion, anti-American and anti- Constitutional stands. The so-called defense of pornography and the use of 4 letter words as free speech has led to a debasement of society. I know that many will jump on this, especially the younger ones, as they have grown up thinking it is OK. But look at many great books and movies that did not need foul language or porn to make them great and many movies and books today would be great, even without naked, foul mouthed characters. The hate of the ACLU of Christianity is also destroying this country. Just now on Fox News they said a judge in Texas will not allow a minister to use "Jesus Christ" in his sermon at a military cemetery on Memorial Day. What have we come to, when this happens, as many of those who died defending this country believed in Jesus and fought for that freedom. And do not give me that "seperation of church and state". That is not in the Constitution, it says "freedom of religion", not freedom from religion. That seperation stuff is a made up thing, created in the last 50 years by Christian haters. Afterall one of the ways the communists hope to win out, is to eliminate God in society and replace it with government.The list of political correctness and anti-Americaness is too long to list . "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." Given the 14th Amendment's application of the 1st Amendment to the States, it is a very fine line whenever religion is used in any government activity or place paid for by tax dollars. By allowing a majority's beliefs to be espoused in these situations, we come awfully close to the appearance of an establishment of a particular religion, most often Christianity, at the expense of minority beliefs. On the other hand, the majority's free exercise is arguably underhanded. In this regard, absent a compelling interest, religion is withheld from public functions. I am a white, straight, registered-Republican, middle-class Catholic male. I fall into the majority in seemingly every category possible, yet I still feel that the ACLU is absolutely necessary. I don't agree with many of the lawsuits they bring about, but they are a necessary watchdog. If we were to allow the appearance of a state-sponsored religion to continue to be afforded more and more leeway, then we are undertaking a piecemeal denigration of anyone who chooses to believe something different from the majority. To analogize with the gun control thread, if we continue to regulate what kind of firearms citizens are allowed to own, what right will the 2nd Amendment be protecting 25, 50, 100 years from now? In the same vein, labeling enforcement of the 1st Amendment as un-constitutional could not be further from the truth. Strictly textually, everyone is free to believe and practice whatever and however they wish. In regards to the Framer's intent, the Free Exercise and Free Establishment Clauses were added as different sects of Protestantism were represented in the earliest stages of our country. They did not want an national religion similar to the Church of England, therefore the Clauses ensure that each particular faith can be practiced. The text however explicitly says religion, specifically prohibiting establishment and impediments to free exercise. When tax dollars are involved, the exercise is not free. The ACLU exists so to place a check on this fine line. Bballfamily, this post is not necessarily directed at you, I simply wanted to add my two cents, and used it as an opportunity to actually introduce the text of the Constitution. I don't necessarily disagree with everything you said, but can you elaborate what you mean by "defending many forms of pervasion?"
May 27, 201115 yr Govern for the majority, well yes, since the majority rules. The ACLU debate is not to be a rule to govern by. If 100 people go to a graduation and 1 person objects to a prayer, should the other 99 have to do without because of 1 person? Those 99 want it, but the ACLU goes to court for that 1 person and has it fixed so that there is no prayer. Is that not infringing on those 99 peoples rights? Is that the way we should govern? The majority does not rule in terms of Civil Rights. As to the bolded: Who said there is no prayer? Does prayer have to be audible? All I have to say is: 1 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. 5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. (Matthew 6:1, 5-7) :thumb:
May 27, 201115 yr Author I am not a person who tries to cause a look at him praying like he is self righteous. IMO everyone is a hypocrite. I do feel though that traditons of prayer at ceremonies should still be allowed even if a person dont agree. I would not try to change things becaue of my feelings, I just with the flow and have my beliefs. I agree with most on the site, but yes I do have a belief that the ACLU is undermining religion for Christians. But we (Christians) stand and take it and do nothing about it either.
May 27, 201115 yr I am not a person who tries to cause a look at him praying like he is self righteous. IMO everyone is a hypocrite. I do feel though that traditons of prayer at ceremonies should still be allowed even if a person dont agree. I would not try to change things becaue of my feelings, I just with the flow and have my beliefs. I agree with most on the site, but yes I do have a belief that the ACLU is undermining religion for Christians. But we (Christians) stand and take it and do nothing about it either. :confused: Can't follow the English in this at all. I'll simply stand on the scriptures. :thumb:
May 27, 201115 yr Author :confused: Can't follow the English in this at all. I'll simply stand on the scriptures. :thumb: In English: I do not make a scene when I pray! I do not go out of my way to make someone say "oh look he is just praying to be seen" Everyone is a hypocrite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I do not agree with the way a group does it, I either dont go there or just mind my own business. Should be a good witness and not be ashamed to pray in public, but in good heart and not for show.
May 27, 201115 yr In English: I do not make a scene when I pray! I do not go out of my way to make someone say "oh look he is just praying to be seen" Everyone is a hypocrite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I do not agree with the way a group does it, I either dont go there or just mind my own business. Should be a good witness and not be ashamed to pray in public, but in good heart and not for show. Much better. :thumb: Again, I'll let Jesus do my talking for me. Thanks. :thumb::walk:
May 27, 201115 yr Author IMO yes. everyone is a hypocrite in some form or fasion. Only person not a hypocrite that I know was Jesus.
May 27, 201115 yr Author Much better. :thumb: Again, I'll let Jesus do my talking for me. Thanks. :thumb::walk: I agree with you also on who does the talking.
May 27, 201115 yr I agree with you also on who does the talking. But your posts don't show it. But I will refrain from calling you the same word you seem comfortable and content to call others.
May 27, 201115 yr Govern for the majority, well yes, since the majority rules. What school system failed to educate you properly on how laws work?
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