If Jude ended up with 3300 and he got about 900 postseason, isn't that 2400? That's what confuses me. I wonder why some teams don't report.

 

I don't call it sour grapes as I would be doing the same thing in your place. I don't know what the voters go on. They may think one player is more talented even though his numbers don't match up. They may consider strength of schedule or the system a player is in. Teams that go farther obviously get more press which is probably another big factor, maybe the biggest as it's been pointed out that the voters can't see everyone and I doubt that many even go so far as to check out the stats. We had a local kid here last year who put up some huge numbers but never got any respect either.

 

Very true, I am just a proud Dad that wants the best for his son, if I don't stand up for him, who will? He will play at the next level, get a degree and coach some future bluegrass preps...

If Jude ended up with 3300 and he got about 900 postseason, isn't that 2400? That's what confuses me. I wonder why some teams don't report.

 

I don't call it sour grapes as I would be doing the same thing in your place. I don't know what the voters go on. They may think one player is more talented even though his numbers don't match up. They may consider strength of schedule or the system a player is in. Teams that go farther obviously get more press which is probably another big factor, maybe the biggest as it's been pointed out that the voters can't see everyone and I doubt that many even go so far as to check out the stats. We had a local kid here last year who put up some huge numbers but never got any respect either.

 

Very well put.:thumb:

Well I do not think Dale nominates of sends out the name of his players, in talking to a few coaching friends of mine they said they had never seen anything from Dale concerning any of his players. Coaches vote on this things and normally they send out information about kids they think are deserving. There has been many years where Highlands kids are very well represented on the all state team.

 

 

To the best of my knowledge, there is no nomination process for the coaches all state team. Coaches are supposed to vote on who they think are the best players based on what they've seen or based on what they've been told by coaches they trust. And when asked for input about players, coaches should be completely honest and not just promote his own players for the sake of them getting recognition. Unfortunately, the coaches all state team has become something much different than that over the years. I try not to be too critical of coaches because I value highly the time, effort and passion they put into the game for the benefit of high school kids, but how they go about selecting the coaches all state team is not a very flattering reflection on the profession in my opinion and I'll leave it at that. While the AP team also has it's flaws, I think it's a more credible all state team in most years. Not every year, but most years. And I think the all BGP team is the most accurate one in most years.

Very true, I am just a proud Dad that wants the best for his son, if I don't stand up for him, who will? He will play at the next level, get a degree and coach some future bluegrass preps...

 

:thumb: Best of luck to him. It's awesome when they can continue to enjoy the game past high school while continuing their education.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no nomination process for the coaches all state team. Coaches are supposed to vote on who they think are the best players based on what they've seen or based on what they've been told by coaches they trust. And when asked for input about players, coaches should be completely honest and not just promote his own players for the sake of them getting recognition. Unfortunately, the coaches all state team has become something much different than that over the years. I try not to be too critical of coaches because I value highly the time, effort and passion they put into the game for the benefit of high school kids, but how they go about selecting the coaches all state team is not a very flattering reflection on the profession in my opinion and I'll leave it at that. While the AP team also has it's flaws, I think it's a more credible all state team in most years. Not every year, but most years. And I think the all BGP team is the most accurate one in most years.

 

Leatherneck -- you and I are in 100% agreement.

 

I've always thought there could be a way to come up with a 'true' All-State team--but it would be VERY tough to pull off. And I bring this up in no way to disparage those who currently put together the ones they do now--it takes a LOT of work to compile all this, especially doing it the way Jody Demling at the C-J has to do it, counting on HS coaches to fill out, turn in ballots, and then having to add them all up. But it's pretty obvious every year that people get bent out of shape about who was more or less deserving--I think that's mainly about the flawed structure of the systems they're having to work within.

 

First, why nobody will EVER be happy with ANY of the ways All-State teams are chosen...

* CJ -- Coaches vote--only supposed to vote for 'the best player at each position you saw all year;' so there's not differentiation between someone you consider 1st Team or Hon. Mention. ...it is rife with 'you-vote-for-mine, I'll-vote-for-yours.' ...coaches are busy coaching all season, so there's no way to see players other than those they play or that might be on films of teams they are scouting (and I pay VERY little attention to the opponent of my opponent when I watch film!). ...while some coaches do a good job 'promoting' their players via email, snail-mail, etc. (many of whom actually promote that they have as many as SIX guys on a team worthy of being called one of the best 22 a coach has seen all year); ...others don't take the time to do it, don't feel it matters, or feel it's not to promote one of their individuals on a team sport. Good upside is that LOTS of kids are recognized (same is true with AP).

 

* AP -- Only 'AP sports reporters' vote. That means only voters are sports-writers from DAILY newspapers in Ky. There are VERY few of those (12 maybe?). And for the most part, they only see the players in person in their area (they are busy covering their own area; how would they have time to see players throughout the state?). I've heard they tend to lean on the opinions of the other journalists in the state that hear more about players throughout the state (like Vaught of Danville, Fields of H-L, and Demling/Frakes of C-J).

 

* Class of the Commonwealth -- Not sure, but I think this is done pretty much 'in-house' at the Lex. Herald. Mike Fields is VERY well-connected to reporters and coaches throughout the state, so he can act as sort of a 'clearinghouse' of information. That allows him to be objective about things and not tied to any kind of 'voting' as in the first two ('democracy' is SO messy...and not always the best way to make decisions; see, "Congress"). Downside would be that there are very few chosen (no 2nd/3rd Team, Hon. Mention).

 

* BGP -- Like CofC in that voting is taken out of it, so isn't prone to 'messiness' that happens when people from all over vote; so therefore has more credence to most knowledgeable fans/coaches. Also similar in that is limited to a small number of kids getting recognized.

 

I've proposed this in the past (I doubt it's practical--I don't claim it is--I just think it would fix some of the problems of the current 4 different All-State voting systems).

* HS coaches are required to NOMINATE players they think are truly deserving (there should be some kind of criteria, like: "one of the top 5% of players I've coached") based on their REGULAR SEASON performance (that way, all candidates have the same number of games to compile stats). Coaches would have to send in 10-20 HIGHLIGHTS of those players along with stats and any other pertinent info (that is something we're all doing anyway, to help these guys get college looks).

 

* Identify a group of people who would be knowledgeable about HS football and would have time on their hands...retired 'legend' coaches (Reed, Jaggers, Schneider, etc.) and journalists (Bob White, Earl Cox, etc.); maybe even some legendary former Ky. HS football players who are not in coaching or journalism.

 

* Invite the current AP voters (which would include the C-J and Class of Commonwealth guys) and whomever is involved in putting together the BGP team.

 

* Get them all together--with the highlights/coaching recommendations--to meet the week BEFORE the state finals to go over all the candidates coaches sent info in on for each position. At the end of having THAT information (not just 'stats' or 'word-of-mouth') decisions could be made based on actual highlights/stats of players at each position viewed in comparison to players at the same position.

 

From this, players could be selected for the "Best of the Bluegrass" All-Star game (which I think could be held at the end of the week after Christmas -- would allow players playing in the State Finals some time to rest/recover and be a part of it, being on a school break both teams could have access to indoor fields at UK and UofL to prepare and not miss school, weather is just as likely to be bad the last week of Dec as it is the 2nd week of Dec.). I think you could also have good information on which to base the "Mr. Football" voting.

 

All this could then be announced at the perfect time -- at the State Finals.

 

A big downside to picking a SINGLE All-State team is that it is nearly impossible to compare kids across classes. I know Georgia and Tennessee have separate All-State teams for their different classes. 6 seems like too many, but I could see a rationale for a 'small school All-State (1A/2A)' and a 'medium (3A/4A)' and one for 'big-school (5A/6A).' Not sure if that could happen, either in the current systems, or in my proposal, but I do think there's some merit to it.

 

There would, of course, be some coaches that wouldn't take the time to nominate an otherwise deserving player. That's part of why those sportswriters from all areas of the state would be there...they could recommend someone for honors they've seen whose coach didn't nominate or nominated but didn't send film in on.

Leatherneck -- you and I are in 100% agreement.

 

I've always thought there could be a way to come up with a 'true' All-State team--but it would be VERY tough to pull off. And I bring this up in no way to disparage those who currently put together the ones they do now--it takes a LOT of work to compile all this, especially doing it the way Jody Demling at the C-J has to do it, counting on HS coaches to fill out, turn in ballots, and then having to add them all up. But it's pretty obvious every year that people get bent out of shape about who was more or less deserving--I think that's mainly about the flawed structure of the systems they're having to work within.

 

First, why nobody will EVER be happy with ANY of the ways All-State teams are chosen...

* CJ -- Coaches vote--only supposed to vote for 'the best player at each position you saw all year;' so there's not differentiation between someone you consider 1st Team or Hon. Mention. ...it is rife with 'you-vote-for-mine, I'll-vote-for-yours.' ...coaches are busy coaching all season, so there's no way to see players other than those they play or that might be on films of teams they are scouting (and I pay VERY little attention to the opponent of my opponent when I watch film!). ...while some coaches do a good job 'promoting' their players via email, snail-mail, etc. (many of whom actually promote that they have as many as SIX guys on a team worthy of being called one of the best 22 a coach has seen all year); ...others don't take the time to do it, don't feel it matters, or feel it's not to promote one of their individuals on a team sport. Good upside is that LOTS of kids are recognized (same is true with AP).

 

* AP -- Only 'AP sports reporters' vote. That means only voters are sports-writers from DAILY newspapers in Ky. There are VERY few of those (12 maybe?). And for the most part, they only see the players in person in their area (they are busy covering their own area; how would they have time to see players throughout the state?). I've heard they tend to lean on the opinions of the other journalists in the state that hear more about players throughout the state (like Vaught of Danville, Fields of H-L, and Demling/Frakes of C-J).

 

* Class of the Commonwealth -- Not sure, but I think this is done pretty much 'in-house' at the Lex. Herald. Mike Fields is VERY well-connected to reporters and coaches throughout the state, so he can act as sort of a 'clearinghouse' of information. That allows him to be objective about things and not tied to any kind of 'voting' as in the first two ('democracy' is SO messy...and not always the best way to make decisions; see, "Congress"). Downside would be that there are very few chosen (no 2nd/3rd Team, Hon. Mention).

 

* BGP -- Like CofC in that voting is taken out of it, so isn't prone to 'messiness' that happens when people from all over vote; so therefore has more credence to most knowledgeable fans/coaches. Also similar in that is limited to a small number of kids getting recognized.

 

I've proposed this in the past (I doubt it's practical--I don't claim it is--I just think it would fix some of the problems of the current 4 different All-State voting systems).

* HS coaches are required to NOMINATE players they think are truly deserving (there should be some kind of criteria, like: "one of the top 5% of players I've coached") based on their REGULAR SEASON performance (that way, all candidates have the same number of games to compile stats). Coaches would have to send in 10-20 HIGHLIGHTS of those players along with stats and any other pertinent info (that is something we're all doing anyway, to help these guys get college looks).

 

* Identify a group of people who would be knowledgeable about HS football and would have time on their hands...retired 'legend' coaches (Reed, Jaggers, Schneider, etc.) and journalists (Bob White, Earl Cox, etc.); maybe even some legendary former Ky. HS football players who are not in coaching or journalism.

 

* Invite the current AP voters (which would include the C-J and Class of Commonwealth guys) and whomever is involved in putting together the BGP team.

 

* Get them all together--with the highlights/coaching recommendations--to meet the week BEFORE the state finals to go over all the candidates coaches sent info in on for each position. At the end of having THAT information (not just 'stats' or 'word-of-mouth') decisions could be made based on actual highlights/stats of players at each position viewed in comparison to players at the same position.

 

From this, players could be selected for the "Best of the Bluegrass" All-Star game (which I think could be held at the end of the week after Christmas -- would allow players playing in the State Finals some time to rest/recover and be a part of it, being on a school break both teams could have access to indoor fields at UK and UofL to prepare and not miss school, weather is just as likely to be bad the last week of Dec as it is the 2nd week of Dec.). I think you could also have good information on which to base the "Mr. Football" voting.

 

All this could then be announced at the perfect time -- at the State Finals.

 

A big downside to picking a SINGLE All-State team is that it is nearly impossible to compare kids across classes. I know Georgia and Tennessee have separate All-State teams for their different classes. 6 seems like too many, but I could see a rationale for a 'small school All-State (1A/2A)' and a 'medium (3A/4A)' and one for 'big-school (5A/6A).' Not sure if that could happen, either in the current systems, or in my proposal, but I do think there's some merit to it.

 

There would, of course, be some coaches that wouldn't take the time to nominate an otherwise deserving player. That's part of why those sportswriters from all areas of the state would be there...they could recommend someone for honors they've seen whose coach didn't nominate or nominated but didn't send film in on.

 

Great idea Coach. I like it.

 

I also like the idea of having 5 or 6 Mr. Football finalists show up at a banquet held one night and the winner announced (similar to how they do the Heisman Award). As I understand it, the announcement of Mr. Football currently is done through newspaper articles. No disrespect to our sportswriter friends, but that seems rather small-time. Turn it into an event. Nice honor for the finalists and the winner; great opportunity to promote high school football. If possible, it could be held in conjunction with the Best of the Bluegrass All-Star game you suggested. Do it the night before the game. Have the game and the event alternate between UK and UL each year. I'd like to think that UK wouldn't have a problem with it being played on their natural grass field since they are done using it by late December.

Congrats to the boys from Harlan County...

 

Jordan Calton, #87, Defensive Line Honorable Mention

Brian Owens, #54, Defensive Line Honorable Mention

 

We'll miss you next year guys!!!

Great idea Coach. I like it.

 

I also like the idea of having 5 or 6 Mr. Football finalists show up at a banquet held one night and the winner announced (similar to how they do the Heisman Award). As I understand it, the announcement of Mr. Football currently is done through newspaper articles. No disrespect to our sportswriter friends, but that seems rather small-time. Turn it into an event. Nice honor for the finalists and the winner; great opportunity to promote high school football. If possible, it could be held in conjunction with the Best of the Bluegrass All-Star game you suggested. Do it the night before the game. Have the game and the event alternate between UK and UL each year. I'd like to think that UK wouldn't have a problem with it being played on their natural grass field since they are done using it by late December.

Those are great ideas! I would love to see Coach J's and Leatherneck's suggestions happen.

A local coaching legend and friend of mine always gave his basketball ballot to a mutual friend to complete. His reasoning was simple....his job kept him from seeing a lot of games other than those in which his team participated. The guy who actually completed the ballot went to all of the tournaments and talked with another guy whose job took him all over the state where he filled in his evenings at the local HS gym. Both of these guys were and still are excellent talent evaluators. In fact, one was often consulted by one of Curci's assistants during the Curci era.

This would not work as well for football, but I have to wonder how many coaches go to see CovCath when they play on Sat. after coaching their team on Saturday. I wonder the same thing about who attends the various pre-season bowls.

This is not intended as criticism of the current CJ team, as I saw only the local players, and a few who played against local teams in the playoffs. One thing is for sure. The football selections are always going to be more flawed than the basketball selections for reasons to obvious to mention.