Maybe I really don't understand what you are trying to say. If I'm wrong please correct me. But I can name tons of city public schools that are not very good year in and year out. Paris, Paintsville ect ect. Now I can also name lots of county schools that are at the top in the state or region. Bell Co, Boyle, Hardin, Johnson Central Co, Caldwell Co. ect. ect.

I do here excuses that the kids live all over the county and it's hard to get them to and from practice! Things like that. But at the sametime I see them do well in other sports. ie. Basketball, football or track. But when I see some of the county schools thrive like the one's above I just don't understand the logic their throwing at me. Sure some counties are bigger then others. And the travel is greater but is that really an excuses. Just seems to me losers come up with excuses and winners work till the job is done!!

 

Obviously there are some county schools that do great in spite of the perceived hindrances other schools cite as excuses. Not every city school does great either (but most have a long tradition of football dating back well before the late-'60s/early-'70s, when most county school consolidation occurred).

 

But the common thread between the Boyle Countys and Trinitys and Mayfields of the world is a great deal of community support. That's where it starts.

Well said, Jim. The big city private schools are so different from my world that I really couldn't care less what they do until they start blowing the "we work harder" trumpet. If the good programs in my area of the state worked any harder Child Welfare Services would investigate the coaches.

Obviously there are some county schools that do great in spite of the perceived hindrances other schools cite as excuses. Not every city school does great either (but most have a long tradition of football dating back well before the late-'60s/early-'70s, when most county school consolidation occurred).

 

But the common thread between the Boyle Countys and Trinitys and Mayfields of the world is a great deal of community support. That's where it starts.

 

Community support: You need a great feeder program. Thats where you need parents workin' their butts off. And a high school coaching staff that works the kids hard in the off season. (weight lifting) You have to get these kids in weightlifting events all over the state. I know we do that. You have to go out if you are a coach and be very upbeat and go after these kids walking down the hallways. Every now and then you come up with a gem!

Edited November 21, 201015 yr by Birdsfan

To the bolded point and the post above it: Those kids do that because of lack of support at the programs they would have otherwise played for. If a kid at say, Henry Clay, looked up in the stands on Friday nights and saw more than just a handful of people there supporting him, he might not consider going to LexCath or LCA.

 

The Trinitys and St. Xs and LexCaths of the world thrive in large part because of their traditions of success, but they also feed off the poor support afforded to their public school rivals. It has to change somewhere, and nobody said it would be easy. Shifting the blame solves nothing.

 

This is dead-on accurate, Jim. And it shouldn't be misinterpreted as a public/private issue, because is certainly isn't. It's a matter of commitment by players, coaches, administrations, parents and communities. And maybe it isn't all about "working harder," but that is a big part of the secret -- along with "working smarter." Working smarter is about how the program operates: coaching, practices, training, scheduling, facilities, development, involvement, and so on.

Community support: You need a great feeder program. Thats where you need parents workin' their butts off. And a high school coaching staff that works the kids hard in the off season. (weight lifting) You have to get these kids in weightlifting events all over the state. I know we do that. You have to go out if you are a coach and be very upbeat and go after these kids walking down the hallways. Every now and then you come up with a gem!

:thumb:

Now, I'm generally not one to advocate political correctness, but perhaps in the county public/independent public/private debate it is necessary to retire the phrase "work harder" in favor of something less loaded.

 

Facts are that county public school supporters, when being offered reasons as to their school's lack of success, generally close their ears when they read/hear "work harder" from the supporters of a successful FB program. Nobody who's pouring themselves out for their program wants to be told they're lazy when they just sat down to check BGP at 10:30 p.m. after they just got done washing another load of smelly uniforms.

 

The problem, of course, is that those involved with the county public schools that struggle are indeed busting their butts to make their school successful. There just aren't enough people in the community committed to the success of the program; at least not at the level they need to be to change the culture.

 

So, for the sake of improving football across the board in Ky., instead of "work harder," supporters of successful programs should be saying "get more people involved." Because, at the end of the day, the lack of broad community involvement/participation/support the biggest difference I see between successful programs and struggling ones.

 

I'm Jim Schue and I support this message ...

 

Great post. You could not be more accurate.

Now, I'm generally not one to advocate political correctness, but perhaps in the county public/independent public/private debate it is necessary to retire the phrase "work harder" in favor of something less loaded.

 

Facts are that county public school supporters, when being offered reasons as to their school's lack of success, generally close their ears when they read/hear "work harder" from the supporters of a successful FB program. Nobody who's pouring themselves out for their program wants to be told they're lazy when they just sat down to check BGP at 10:30 p.m. after they just got done washing another load of smelly uniforms.

 

The problem, of course, is that those involved with the county public schools that struggle are indeed busting their butts to make their school successful. There just aren't enough people in the community committed to the success of the program; at least not at the level they need to be to change the culture.

 

So, for the sake of improving football across the board in Ky., instead of "work harder," supporters of successful programs should be saying "get more people involved." Because, at the end of the day, the lack of broad community involvement/participation/support the biggest difference I see between successful programs and struggling ones.

 

I'm Jim Schue and I support this message ...

 

AMEN, Jim...and you have my support! :thumb:

Jim, I once complained about the beating the publics were taking...I was told the Publics "need to work harder". After watching my son play at Male for four years and the WORK these kids did...well I was not happy with the outsiders comment who had no idea how much we Worked.

 

Since 2000 6A twice the publics have won the Title. And from reports I'm getting on BGPs it might be a very long time befotre they win another one...So how long does this happen before someone steps up and make it a level playing field. Male doesn't struggle per say until they get into the playoffs. In my sons four years they didn't even get into a final game.

 

If it was reversed, they will feel the same. Its human nature.

 

The numbers cannot lie.

But the fact that folks like Dudley and Phillip Haywood and Mike Holcomb have been able to make it work just proves my point -- the community has to invest itself personally in the success of the football team. I understand times are hard. They're hard everywhere. Why not volunteer to support the local program and build it up to where it can be a source of community pride, something that helps people forget how difficult real life is?

 

Economics is a lame excuse and places like Belfry, Bell Co. and Breathitt Co. prove that. I can't imagine there are too many places in the state that have it rougher (economics-wise) than those places.

These schools are the exceptions. To think economics is a lame excuse is unreal. How many times have T, X, HHS, Bwood, LCA, LCath had players miss practice or have to quit because parents couldnt afford gas or needed them to work to help pay bills instead of play ball. This is not the norm but it happens and if it happens to 2,3, 4 kids per class it makes a huge differnece

These schools are the exceptions. To think economics is a lame excuse is unreal. How many times have T, X, HHS, Bwood, LCA, LCath had players miss practice or have to quit because parents couldnt afford gas or needed them to work to help pay bills instead of play ball. This is not the norm but it happens and if it happens to 2,3, 4 kids per class it makes a huge differnece

 

Sounds like your community doesn't take football as seriously as they do in South Williamson, Jackson and Log Mtn. Somehow, those economically depressed areas make it work.

 

It's so much easier to make excuses and shift blame than to do something to make a change.

Jim, I once complained about the beating the publics were taking...I was told the Publics "need to work harder". After watching my son play at Male for four years and the WORK these kids did...well I was not happy with the outsiders comment who had no idea how much we Worked.

 

Since 2000 6A twice the publics have won the Title. And from reports I'm getting on BGPs it might be a very long time befotre they win another one...So how long does this happen before someone steps up and make it a level playing field. Male doesn't struggle per say until they get into the playoffs. In my sons four years they didn't even get into a final game.

 

If it was reversed, they will feel the same. Its human nature.

 

The numbers cannot lie.

 

Then I have to ask you: How many people are volunteering at Male who have no child in the school system? Because at the traditional powers, they have people volunteering and pouring themselves out for the program who haven't had a kid in the school in decades.

I agree with a lot being said. There are many different situations for the different school districts. And there are definately some schools that need to work harder or take it more serious. There are also some tough districts hit with economics. Some communities support their schools more than others. Winning breeds success, but unfortunately, so does losing. There will never be any way to level the playing field. T, X, Beechwood, HHS would never have anyone miss practice or quit because they couldn't afford gas money. Another member of the community would offer to ride the athlete to and from practice. I would bet most the head coaches would offer to let the student live with him for a while. Public schools like Beechwood and HHS are already playing behind the eight ball when it comes to funding for the schools. Most of the money for the sporting activities as well as other student organizations come from the community.

I agree with a lot being said. There are many different situations for the different school districts. And there are definately some schools that need to work harder or take it more serious. There are also some tough districts hit with economics. Some communities support their schools more than others. Winning breeds success, but unfortunately, so does losing. There will never be any way to level the playing field. T, X, Beechwood, HHS would never have anyone miss practice or quit because they couldn't afford gas money. Another member of the community would offer to ride the athlete to and from practice. I would bet most the head coaches would offer to let the student live with him for a while. Public schools like Beechwood and HHS are already playing behind the eight ball when it comes to funding for the schools. Most of the money for the sporting activities as well as other student organizations come from the community.

 

Exactly. The fact that there is no one at these struggling FB schools doing this illustrates my point completely. It's not like each and every single person in an economically depressed area is hurting. There's always an alum who's doing quite well for themselves who can't be bothered to support their former school.

The bottom line is without community support you have a very limited program. The community give life to a lifeless program. Take Monroe County for example...without the community the program would be hard pressed to dress 70+ kids every year in a 2a program. It starts at the little league level and continues when these young men are in college!

Not sure Jim, I know when a son is not there we are not involved due to where our son is , we are there. Now when the sons move on, who knows? I'll still go to the games.

 

Male preaches parents involvement.