Government cannot produce or create wealth or anything for that matter, it can only confiscate and redistribute. Contrary to popular belief, most wealth created in this country is by hard work and sacrifice. Therefore, it baffles me as to why folks like to buy into the class warfare garbage that spews from the mouths of many on here. Guess what? Increasing taxes on the so called "rich" will not improve my life or yours one iota!

 

Most of the real wealth in this country is created through inheritance. I would venture to guess that most of us are either #s 4, 5 or 6 on the list. And our group is shrinking. The control of wealth in this country is going to fewer and fewer people. Stories of rags to riches is few and far between and we continue to lower the tax rates. Why then is the middle class disappearing? It is not because WE are moving to the upper class it is because we are getting "poorer" in regards to spending power.

Progressive version:

 

Suppose that every day, ten people go out for beer. A lot of beer. If they paid their bill the way fiscal Conservatives WANT us to pay our taxes (21% rate for everyone, which would amount to an enormous tax reduction for the richest and the largest tax increase in history for the poorest), it would go something like this:

 

The first four people (the poorest) make $50 a day and would pay $11.50, leaving them with $38.50 to survive.

The fifth makes $200 a day and would pay $42, leaving her with just $158.

The sixth makes $300 and would pay $63.

The seventh makes $400 and would pay $84.

The eighth makes $500 and would pay $105.

The ninth makes $1,000 and would pay $210, leaving her with $790.

The tenth man (the richest) makes $10,000 and would pay $2,100, leaving him with $7,900.

 

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten people drank in the bar every day under this arrangement. The poor had to sacrifice birthday gifts for their children and healthcare for one member of their family in order to buy that beer. The wealthy still enjoyed their healthcare, college, 401k retirement savings, their gated home and clean and healthy organic lifestyle, and their yacht, but they couldn’t afford a second yacht because of that beer!

 

One day, the bar owner threw them a curve. Instead of paying 21% of their income each for the beer, they could each pay 15%! The bar owner proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

 

And so:

 

The first four people (the poorest, most strapped for cash) save $3 (6% savings).

The fifth saves $12 (6% savings).

The sixth saves $18 (6% savings).

The seventh saves $24 (6% savings).

The eighth saves $30 (6% savings).

The ninth saves $60 (6% savings).

The tenth saves $600 (6% savings).

 

Each of the people had more expendable income than before. But while the poorest struggled to buy just one additional teddy bear for the new baby with the savings, the rich saved enough that they actually could afford that second yacht after all! In fact, they saved many times the sum of the poor people’s income, and that was just their savings!

 

However, despite the additional income, not everyone was better off. Even though the beer was cheaper, the healthcare assistance for the poor disappeared, the public transportation system in America deteriorated, the country could no longer invest in medical research or fund job training centers or police stations around the country. So, in actuality, the poor, who were the financially worst off to begin with, became even worse off, despite the extra $3 bucks a day they saved. Working class people also happen to represent the majority of America. Despite the crumbling surrounding community, the small rich minority were astronomically better off! Their healthcare rates didn’t change, they kept their Lexus, they could still afford college, and although they decided against buying the second yacht, because, why would you need two?, they were able to throw even more money into derivatives!

 

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our fiscal conservatives want our tax system to work. Everyone pays the exact same percentage of their income in taxes, the people who pay the highest taxes are the only ones to benefit from a tax reduction, while the poor, struggling to get by to begin with, struggle even more regardless of whether taxes go up or down.

 

No one is attacking anyone for “being wealthy,” as some assert. (I wish I were rich, and I certainly wouldn't complain about my taxes if I were.) But the rich got rich in America, on the shoulders of their working class employees and using the infrastructure the working class have built and the security and structure America provides. Numerically equal tax rates do not amount to equal burden. It does not amount to "fairness." It utterly ignores the common good, and it is the antithesis of equal opportunity. The world just don’t work that way.

 

Nobody Special

University of New Hampshire alumnus

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.

For those who do not understand, just think about it. You’ll get there. Doesn’t take a PhD, just some perspective.

Government cannot produce or create wealth or anything for that matter, it can only confiscate and redistribute. Contrary to popular belief, most wealth created in this country is by hard work and sacrifice. Therefore, it baffles me as to why folks like to buy into the class warfare garbage that spews from the mouths of many on here. Guess what? Increasing taxes on the so called "rich" will not improve my life or yours one iota!

 

I'm with ya! Neither will reducing the taxes on the rich!

Progressive version:

 

Suppose that every day, ten people go out for beer. A lot of beer. If they paid their bill the way fiscal Conservatives WANT us to pay our taxes (21% rate for everyone, which would amount to an enormous tax reduction for the richest and the largest tax increase in history for the poorest), it would go something like this:

 

The first four people (the poorest) make $50 a day and would pay $11.50, leaving them with $38.50 to survive.

The fifth makes $200 a day and would pay $42, leaving her with just $158.

The sixth makes $300 and would pay $63.

The seventh makes $400 and would pay $84.

The eighth makes $500 and would pay $105.

The ninth makes $1,000 and would pay $210, leaving her with $790.

The tenth man (the richest) makes $10,000 and would pay $2,100, leaving him with $7,900.

 

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten people drank in the bar every day under this arrangement. The poor had to sacrifice birthday gifts for their children and healthcare for one member of their family in order to buy that beer. The wealthy still enjoyed their healthcare, college, 401k retirement savings, their gated home and clean and healthy organic lifestyle, and their yacht, but they couldn’t afford a second yacht because of that beer!

 

One day, the bar owner threw them a curve. Instead of paying 21% of their income each for the beer, they could each pay 15%! The bar owner proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

 

And so:

 

The first four people (the poorest, most strapped for cash) save $3 (6% savings).

The fifth saves $12 (6% savings).

The sixth saves $18 (6% savings).

The seventh saves $24 (6% savings).

The eighth saves $30 (6% savings).

The ninth saves $60 (6% savings).

The tenth saves $600 (6% savings).

 

Each of the people had more expendable income than before. But while the poorest struggled to buy just one additional teddy bear for the new baby with the savings, the rich saved enough that they actually could afford that second yacht after all! In fact, they saved many times the sum of the poor people’s income, and that was just their savings!

 

However, despite the additional income, not everyone was better off. Even though the beer was cheaper, the healthcare assistance for the poor disappeared, the public transportation system in America deteriorated, the country could no longer invest in medical research or fund job training centers or police stations around the country. So, in actuality, the poor, who were the financially worst off to begin with, became even worse off, despite the extra $3 bucks a day they saved. Working class people also happen to represent the majority of America. Despite the crumbling surrounding community, the small rich minority were astronomically better off! Their healthcare rates didn’t change, they kept their Lexus, they could still afford college, and although they decided against buying the second yacht, because, why would you need two?, they were able to throw even more money into derivatives!

 

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our fiscal conservatives want our tax system to work. Everyone pays the exact same percentage of their income in taxes, the people who pay the highest taxes are the only ones to benefit from a tax reduction, while the poor, struggling to get by to begin with, struggle even more regardless of whether taxes go up or down.

 

No one is attacking anyone for “being wealthy,” as some assert. (I wish I were rich, and I certainly wouldn't complain about my taxes if I were.) But the rich got rich in America, on the shoulders of their working class employees and using the infrastructure the working class have built and the security and structure America provides. Numerically equal tax rates do not amount to equal burden. It does not amount to "fairness." It utterly ignores the common good, and it is the antithesis of equal opportunity. The world just don’t work that way.

 

Nobody Special

University of New Hampshire alumnus

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.

For those who do not understand, just think about it. You’ll get there. Doesn’t take a PhD, just some perspective.

 

Sounds like a great reason to work hard and be successful.

This is true economics as seen by those who understand it.

Bar Stool Economics

 

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100 and If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

 

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.

The fifth would pay $1.

The sixth would pay $3.

The seventh would pay $7.

The eighth would pay $12.

The ninth would pay $18.

The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

 

So, that's what they decided to do.

 

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20." so drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

 

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected...They would still drink for free...But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'...They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33...But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer..So, the bar owner

Suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

 

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).

The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).

The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).

The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).

The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).

The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

 

Each of the six was better off than before...And the first four continued to drink for free...But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

 

"I only got a dollar out of the $20,"declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man," but he got $10!" "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!" "That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!" "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

 

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

 

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

 

And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

:thumb:

Progressive version:

 

Suppose that every day, ten people go out for beer. A lot of beer. If they paid their bill the way fiscal Conservatives WANT us to pay our taxes (21% rate for everyone, which would amount to an enormous tax reduction for the richest and the largest tax increase in history for the poorest), it would go something like this:

 

The first four people (the poorest) make $50 a day and would pay $11.50, leaving them with $38.50 to survive.

The fifth makes $200 a day and would pay $42, leaving her with just $158.

The sixth makes $300 and would pay $63.

The seventh makes $400 and would pay $84.

The eighth makes $500 and would pay $105.

The ninth makes $1,000 and would pay $210, leaving her with $790.

The tenth man (the richest) makes $10,000 and would pay $2,100, leaving him with $7,900.

 

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten people drank in the bar every day under this arrangement. The poor had to sacrifice birthday gifts for their children and healthcare for one member of their family in order to buy that beer. The wealthy still enjoyed their healthcare, college, 401k retirement savings, their gated home and clean and healthy organic lifestyle, and their yacht, but they couldn’t afford a second yacht because of that beer!

 

One day, the bar owner threw them a curve. Instead of paying 21% of their income each for the beer, they could each pay 15%! The bar owner proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

 

And so:

 

The first four people (the poorest, most strapped for cash) save $3 (6% savings).

The fifth saves $12 (6% savings).

The sixth saves $18 (6% savings).

The seventh saves $24 (6% savings).

The eighth saves $30 (6% savings).

The ninth saves $60 (6% savings).

The tenth saves $600 (6% savings).

 

Each of the people had more expendable income than before. But while the poorest struggled to buy just one additional teddy bear for the new baby with the savings, the rich saved enough that they actually could afford that second yacht after all! In fact, they saved many times the sum of the poor people’s income, and that was just their savings!

 

However, despite the additional income, not everyone was better off. Even though the beer was cheaper, the healthcare assistance for the poor disappeared, the public transportation system in America deteriorated, the country could no longer invest in medical research or fund job training centers or police stations around the country. So, in actuality, the poor, who were the financially worst off to begin with, became even worse off, despite the extra $3 bucks a day they saved. Working class people also happen to represent the majority of America. Despite the crumbling surrounding community, the small rich minority were astronomically better off! Their healthcare rates didn’t change, they kept their Lexus, they could still afford college, and although they decided against buying the second yacht, because, why would you need two?, they were able to throw even more money into derivatives!

 

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our fiscal conservatives want our tax system to work. Everyone pays the exact same percentage of their income in taxes, the people who pay the highest taxes are the only ones to benefit from a tax reduction, while the poor, struggling to get by to begin with, struggle even more regardless of whether taxes go up or down.

 

No one is attacking anyone for “being wealthy,” as some assert. (I wish I were rich, and I certainly wouldn't complain about my taxes if I were.) But the rich got rich in America, on the shoulders of their working class employees and using the infrastructure the working class have built and the security and structure America provides. Numerically equal tax rates do not amount to equal burden. It does not amount to "fairness." It utterly ignores the common good, and it is the antithesis of equal opportunity. The world just don’t work that way.

 

Nobody Special

University of New Hampshire alumnus

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.

For those who do not understand, just think about it. You’ll get there. Doesn’t take a PhD, just some perspective.

 

That seems incredibly illogical...:lol: It was worth a good laugh though.

I'm with ya! Neither will reducing the taxes on the rich!

I disagree. By the way, what do you consider "rich"? $250,000 a year? $100,000 a year? Most folks considered "rich" are far from it. Keep in mind, I am not just referring to marginal income tax rates. The "rich" pay plenty as far as I am concerned.

I disagree. By the way, what do you consider "rich"? $250,000 a year? $100,000 a year? Most folks considered "rich" are far from it. Keep in mind, I am not just referring to marginal income tax rates. The "rich" pay plenty as far as I am concerned.

 

 

I have no idea what is "rich". However, throughout my adult life, I know I've never been close. And I know that regardless of what has been the situation with taxing the rich, it's not changed my situation one iota.

When will we quit moving the goalposts on what is "rich?"

 

The median household income for the United States is $50,000. Half make more and half make less. If you and your spouse make $250,000 a year, you make five times as much as the median household income. You are among the richest in America-- 98.5% of households in the United States make less than you do.

 

How can that be defended as not rich?

 

In Kentucky, the median household income is $41,000. $250,000 a year is 6 times as much as the median income.

What you're REALLY doing is complaining about income disparity- and hello! Welcome to class warfare.

 

Allow me to paraphrase from Dr Brad DeLong, professor of Economics at UC Berkeley

 

In 1980, if you were the bottom of the richest 1% of American households, you made $190,000 a year in today's dollars. You personally associate with people in 1000 households, and these people make up your 10% of household income distribution.

 

900 of those households make less than you do--at the bottom, they make $85,000 a year.

 

100 of those make more than you. 90 of them make between $190,000 a year and $550,000. Of the ten richer than that, one makes $1,330,000 a year. This household is 1 in 10,000. They are the top .01%. There are people that make more than that in 1980, but they're are truly rare and you likely don't know them.

 

In 2010, if you earn the bottom of the top percentile in household income, you're filing for nearly $400,000 a year. Note that the gap between the top percent and the top 1.5% is already $150,000 a year.

 

You know, again, 1000 households of people distributed among the top 10% of household income. 900 make less than you do, the bottom few at about $110,000. 100 make more than you do, and in that group 10 make $1,600,000 a year. You know one household with income of about $20,000,000 a year.

 

And you say to yourself, I'm not rich! Those people are rich!

 

You think you're middle class, even though you and your spouse make more than 99 out of 100 households and about eight times as much as the median. It's understandable that you might be confused, but the fact is that you are indeed rich.

The funny thing about this scenario, is everyone concentrates on the dude with the bucks. Yeah he paid more, and yeah when there was a price break, he saved more. What's lost in this is that the 4 poorest guys drank for free no matter what.

The funny thing about this scenario, is everyone concentrates on the dude with the bucks. Yeah he paid more, and yeah when there was a price break, he saved more. What's lost in this is that the 4 poorest guys drank for free no matter what.

 

Exactly...and let's face it: if you can get by doing nothing - no school, no job, then what motivates you to go to college and go to work? Just as the "rich" people look for a way to save their money, preserve their status and not have to work any more to maintain their current situation, so are many of the "poor" people inclined to preserve their status and not have to work any more to maintain their current situation.

Exactly...and let's face it: if you can get by doing nothing - no school, no job, then what motivates you to go to college and go to work? Just as the "rich" people look for a way to save their money, preserve their status and not have to work any more to maintain their current situation, so are many of the "poor" people inclined to preserve their status and not have to work any more to maintain their current situation.

 

I don't understand this. Many of the poor who pay no taxes are NOT on welfare, NOT on any social aid. Everyone wants to concentrate on the dregs as their way of proving that the poor are unmotivated, and disinclined to better themselves. There are many that began as poor, and are now lower middle class, maybe even solidly middle class.

I don't understand this. Many of the poor who pay no taxes are NOT on welfare, NOT on any social aid. Everyone wants to concentrate on the dregs as their way of proving that the poor are unmotivated, and disinclined to better themselves. There are many that began as poor, and are now lower middle class, maybe even solidly middle class.

 

Agreed, many people work themselves from poor to lower-middle and middle class. However, many do not. If you take away the "benefits" of being poor, then those who are willing to work to improve themselves will do so all the same...and those who refuse to work for their own improvement are left to their own devices.

I don't understand this. Many of the poor who pay no taxes are NOT on welfare, NOT on any social aid. Everyone wants to concentrate on the dregs as their way of proving that the poor are unmotivated, and disinclined to better themselves. There are many that began as poor, and are now lower middle class, maybe even solidly middle class.

 

And there are equally as many who began as poor, still are poor, and have no desire to take any initative to better their situation.