Who Said It? Featuring Carson Palmer Fans

[UKMustangFan]

You haven't been impressed with Bradford this year? I know he has some picks, but all rookies do. I think he looks like a future star, maybe that's just me though.

 

Future being the key word....He's looked good for a rookie. He's not there yet, and we're talking about right now. He's in that same group with Palmer. You could suit up any of the 10-12 guys that fall in that group and get basically the same production out of any of them.

[futurecoach]

Geez, the day at school was so stressful today, I guess I hacked into BlueMagic's account and started another Carson bashing thread................

 

Of the QB's listed above I would only take Plamer over Chad Henne and I would have concerns about that going forward. I think Stafford, Kolb, Bradford, Freeman and even Vince Young have showed me enough to pick them above CP.

 

As for the thread, I'll say that a bunch of that was probably my buddy Futurecoach. I can see why Bengals fans said that kind of stuff though, biased and opptomistic glasses are always better to look through than pessimistic.

 

The part bolded is what always gets me going with you. You act like the only people who backed Palmer were Palmer fans, and people who weren't Bengal fans could see that he was overrated. When basically every NFL analysis before the season still considered Palmer a top 10 QB, and that he was just missing weapons. So there was no looking through Bengal glasses when I talked about him. I am not afraid to admit when someone sucks on the Bengals. The main one looking through glasses this year before the season was you, because of how you just never liked him anyways. So that created your bias to what you say about him.

 

I do admit that he has frustrated me some this year. Not because of bad passes, becuase a lot of that has to do with the play calling and receivers not doing the right routes and then dropping passes. What has frustrated me is his decision making this year some, some of his decisions were mistakes he has not made since his rookie year. Looks like he is trying to hard now, and he needs to fix that.

 

Which by the way I believe only the second comment was mine.

[futurecoach]

You guys are unbelievable. Let me know of any of these quarterbacks that you wouldn't want instead of Palmer.

 

My Palmer-less list:

 

1a) Drew Brees

1b) Peyton Manning

3) Tom Brady

4) Aaron Rogers

5) Ben Roethlisberger

6) Philip Rivers

7) Brett Favre

8) Tony Romo

9) Matt Schaub

10) Joe Flacco

11) Eli Manning

12) Matt Ryan

13) Donovan McNabb

14) Michael Vick

15) Kevin Kolb

16) Jay Cutler

17) Kyle Orton

18) Mark Sanchez

19) Vince Young

20) Sam Bradford

21) Matthew Stafford

22) Josh Freeman

23) Chad Henne

 

 

I'm sticking him in at #21 right behind Sam Bradford. If you think Carson is playing better football than McNabb, Vick, Kolb, Cutler, Orton, Vince (when healthy), Orton, Sanchez, and Bradford, you're crazy. He has 7 TDs to his 6 interceptions. Not to mention he looks like my grandpa in the pocket. ZERO mobility, ZERO confidence to ever step up in the pocket, leading to poor, inaccurate throws that put his receivers, and his team, in bad positions. You can make a case for Carson being in the teens somewhere but then you have to look at the quarterbacks behind him and realize that a middle of the pack QB in this league isn't going to cut it. There's not a chance either one of you could convince me that he's better than any of my top 18.

 

Its easy to look at other QB's, and say well this one is better. However when judging how good a QB is, you have to look at the whole picture. Half and maybe even more than half of those guys you have over him, would struggle in this system. The Bengals have the worst OC in the league, and still trying to run the same pass combinations as they ran in 2001 when he first got here. They have no imagination and do not confuse anyone when they play them. I think you can even admit that. They have the worst coach when it comes to game management. Their receivers are very talented, however they are also known for doing their own thing especially on routes. As a QB its all about timing, and your guy being in the right place where he is suppose to be. Most QB's would not do as well in this system, even Peyton Manning would not look as great as he does now. While you can take Palmer and put him in a different situation on a team, and he probably would look better than he does now. You really do have to look at the whole thing.

 

I know Palmer has to play better, especially his decision making. However I would take him still over a lot of those guys, because when you look at the whole thing you can see that.

[CatsCatsCats]

The part bolded is what always gets me going with you. You act like the only people who backed Palmer were Palmer fans, and people who weren't Bengal fans could see that he was overrated. When basically every NFL analysis before the season still considered Palmer a top 10 QB, and that he was just missing weapons. So there was no looking through Bengal glasses when I talked about him. I am not afraid to admit when someone sucks on the Bengals. The main one looking through glasses this year before the season was you, because of how you just never liked him anyways. So that created your bias to what you say about him.

 

I do admit that he has frustrated me some this year. Not because of bad passes, becuase a lot of that has to do with the play calling and receivers not doing the right routes and then dropping passes. What has frustrated me is his decision making this year some, some of his decisions were mistakes he has not made since his rookie year. Looks like he is trying to hard now, and he needs to fix that.

 

Which by the way I believe only the second comment was mine.

 

So the analyst were wrong. I can't believe that would ever happen.

 

And what I said was not a backhanded compliment by any means. I can appreciate people being biased and supporting their teams and players, though I love to give Bengals fans a hard time on here. We all do it, until we are proven extremely wrong. Some were wrong about Palmer, just like I was wrong about Jacory Harris. It happens, we're fans. Get a grip.

[John Anthony]

NFL QB is like a fighter pilot, when you lose the edge your toast. Palmer is holding on, but he really needs to find himself. He's only what 32 but he's playing like 38.

[SSC]

He absolutely owns Flacco. Eli Manning and him are pretty similar except Eli had one monster run in the playoffs so Eli would get the nod. Matt Ryan, Stafford, Freeman, Sanchez, and Bradford are not as good as Palmer yet, but they have brighter futures. Everyone is all over Ryan yet he had a worse second season than rookie. Why are we so sure he's that good? I'd take Palmer over Favre for the next 10 games in a heart beat. Why is Romo so much better? He's either overrated or a huge underachiever. He's for sure better than Henne and Orton. I'm not a big Vince Young fan, but I'd take him before all the guys in their first or second year. If we're talking future sure I'd take some young guys, but for this year give me the guy that beat Flacco the last three times and Big Ben the last two to win the best division in football all while having an idiot owner/gm and head coach. Palmer obviously isn't top 3, 5, or 8 but he isn's as terrible as some of you make him out to be.

[Wireman]

You guys are unbelievable. Let me know of any of these quarterbacks that you wouldn't want instead of Palmer.

 

My Palmer-less list:

 

1a) Drew Brees

1b) Peyton Manning

3) Tom Brady

4) Aaron Rogers

5) Ben Roethlisberger

6) Philip Rivers

7) Brett Favre

8) Tony Romo

9) Matt Schaub

10) Joe Flacco

11) Eli Manning

12) Matt Ryan

13) Donovan McNabb

14) Michael Vick

15) Kevin Kolb

16) Jay Cutler

17) Kyle Orton

18) Mark Sanchez

19) Vince Young

20) Sam Bradford

21) Matthew Stafford

22) Josh Freeman

23) Chad Henne

 

 

I'm sticking him in at #21 right behind Sam Bradford. If you think Carson is playing better football than McNabb, Vick, Kolb, Cutler, Orton, Vince (when healthy), Orton, Sanchez, and Bradford, you're crazy. He has 7 TDs to his 6 interceptions. Not to mention he looks like my grandpa in the pocket. ZERO mobility, ZERO confidence to ever step up in the pocket, leading to poor, inaccurate throws that put his receivers, and his team, in bad positions. You can make a case for Carson being in the teens somewhere but then you have to look at the quarterbacks behind him and realize that a middle of the pack QB in this league isn't going to cut it. There's not a chance either one of you could convince me that he's better than any of my top 18.

 

I'd probably have to put Matt Cassell in my top 23 and when Vick is healthy and playing like he is this season, he's definitely a top 10 and probably a top 5. JMO.

[futurecoach]

So the analyst were wrong. I can't believe that would ever happen.

 

And what I said was not a backhanded compliment by any means. I can appreciate people being biased and supporting their teams and players, though I love to give Bengals fans a hard time on here. We all do it, until we are proven extremely wrong. Some were wrong about Palmer, just like I was wrong about Jacory Harris. It happens, we're fans. Get a grip.

 

I am just pointing out that you were wrong in acting like the only people who thought that about Palmer were Bengal fans. That is not true at all, most NFL people even considered him a top 10 QB before this year. So it had nothing to do with being a Bengals fan. Trust me I have no problem admitting when a Bengal player sucks, especially the QB. I mean I have said basically every QB the Bengals have had since I really started foolowing football had sucked before Palmer. So I know what a bad QB in the NFL looks like, and that was not Palmer. Also unlike most people I also look at everything involved when determing how a QB is. Right now though I do admit Palmer's decision making this year, has been like it was his rookie year. That he does need to fix, because it has not been the best.

[CatsCatsCats]

I am just pointing out that you were wrong in acting like the only people who thought that about Palmer were Bengal fans. That is not true at all, most NFL people even considered him a top 10 QB before this year. So it had nothing to do with being a Bengals fan. Trust me I have no problem admitting when a Bengal player sucks, especially the QB. I mean I have said basically every QB the Bengals have had since I really started foolowing football had sucked before Palmer. So I know what a bad QB in the NFL looks like, and that was not Palmer. Also unlike most people I also look at everything involved when determing how a QB is. Right now though I do admit Palmer's decision making this year, has been like it was his rookie year. That he does need to fix, because it has not been the best.

 

Can I make it more clearly? Your bias did not allow you to see his faults that non-Bengals fans saw. NFL shows and stuff are so political, so I take all they said with a grain of salt. Making it seem like Palmer was going to bounce back made the Bengals more interesting because of the addition of TO. They try to get viewers, and NFL guys tend to not write players off quickly from what I've seen. Trent Dilfer was just talking about how underrated David Garrard was the other day. On NFL shows either a player is great or horrible and there is no in between. If we could go back to the beginning of this season I'd love to see how many QBs were ranked on ESPN, SI or other stuff like that as top 10 QBs, I bet there were alot more than 10. They fed the flames and gave Cincy fans even more excuses for CP.

[futurecoach]

Can I make it more clearly? Your bias did not allow you to see his faults that non-Bengals fans saw. NFL shows and stuff are so political, so I take all they said with a grain of salt. Making it seem like Palmer was going to bounce back made the Bengals more interesting because of the addition of TO. They try to get viewers, and NFL guys tend to not write players off quickly from what I've seen. Trent Dilfer was just talking about how underrated David Garrard was the other day. On NFL shows either a player is great or horrible and there is no in between. If we could go back to the beginning of this season I'd love to see how many QBs were ranked on ESPN, SI or other stuff like that as top 10 QBs, I bet there were alot more than 10. They fed the flames and gave Cincy fans even more excuses for CP.

 

Nice trying but they were saying the same stuff before TO signed. The only bias was you and how you never liked him to begin with. I mean your whole argument about it, was well he has not made a serious Super Bowl run. So that means he was overrated, I mean you really had nothing else to backup your argument. That is a very weak argument, and shows how it was you that allowed your bias towards hating him make up your opinion, and ignore the reasons for why you were wrong.

 

You ignored the fact that the Bengals franchise is one of if not the worst ran franchise in football. You ignored the fact that the Bengals were as bad as they get when Palmer got drafted. You ignored the fact this team has a coach who is a terrible game manager, and probably the worst OC in the league. You ignored the fact that Palmer didn't get to play in that 2005 playoff game, so who knows what happens there. You ignore the fact that in 2006 he did everything he possibly could to get them in the playoffs, however special teams in two straight games decided not to allow that to happen. In 2007 they just didn't get it done, and 2008 he played two games. Then you ignore the fact that last season if not for Palmer being able to make game winning drives against top 5 defenses in the NFL, they don't make the playoffs. You also ignore the fact that if special teams once again doesn't choke in the playoffs last year, then the Bengals still have a shot to win last year. Your whole argument always has been well he is overrated because of never making a serious run at the Super Bowl like some other QB's. Yet you ignore the simple reasons why that is. Other people don't ignore those things, and look at everything all together. This is the first year you really have a little bit to back up your claims, because his decision making this year has been bad. So he has not played the best.

[HammerTime]

Well who said them?

[CatsCatsCats]

Nice trying but they were saying the same stuff before TO signed. The only bias was you and how you never liked him to begin with. I mean your whole argument about it, was well he has not made a serious Super Bowl run. So that means he was overrated, I mean you really had nothing else to backup your argument. That is a very weak argument, and shows how it was you that allowed your bias towards hating him make up your opinion, and ignore the reasons for why you were wrong.

 

You ignored the fact that the Bengals franchise is one of if not the worst ran franchise in football. You ignored the fact that the Bengals were as bad as they get when Palmer got drafted. You ignored the fact this team has a coach who is a terrible game manager, and probably the worst OC in the league. You ignored the fact that Palmer didn't get to play in that 2005 playoff game, so who knows what happens there. You ignore the fact that in 2006 he did everything he possibly could to get them in the playoffs, however special teams in two straight games decided not to allow that to happen. In 2007 they just didn't get it done, and 2008 he played two games. Then you ignore the fact that last season if not for Palmer being able to make game winning drives against top 5 defenses in the NFL, they don't make the playoffs. You also ignore the fact that if special teams once again doesn't choke in the playoffs last year, then the Bengals still have a shot to win last year. Your whole argument always has been well he is overrated because of never making a serious run at the Super Bowl like some other QB's. Yet you ignore the simple reasons why that is. Other people don't ignore those things, and look at everything all together. This is the first year you really have a little bit to back up your claims, because his decision making this year has been bad. So he has not played the best.

 

Excuses, excuses. He was crap last year too, they just happened to make the playoffs. Even when he went for big numbers in the past he was never elite accuracy wise as far as ball placement IMO. Two Pro Bowl Wrs, and a very good young WR make QBs look good and always made him look better than he was. Marc Bulger looked like an all-pro for a while when Holt and Bruce where still good. Outside of putting up numbers with loaded WR on the outside, Palmer has never proven anything. Guys like Schaub and Orton have put up numbers too, doesn't make them elite. Palmer being "elite" for two seasons hardly backs up your claim at all.

 

As for having a poor OC, isn't it possible he looks bad because he has no faith in the garbage he has taking snaps? Do you really think an NFL coach is that incompetent that they cannot put together an effective gameplan? His gameplan won in spite of Palmer last year.

[UKMustangFan]

Excuses, excuses. He was crap last year too, they just happened to make the playoffs. Even when he went for big numbers in the past he was never elite accuracy wise as far as ball placement IMO. Two Pro Bowl Wrs, and a very good young WR make QBs look good and always made him look better than he was. Marc Bulger looked like an all-pro for a while when Holt and Bruce where still good. Outside of putting up numbers with loaded WR on the outside, Palmer has never proven anything. Guys like Schaub and Orton have put up numbers too, doesn't make them elite. Palmer being "elite" for two seasons hardly backs up your claim at all.

 

As for having a poor OC, isn't it possible he looks bad because he has no faith in the garbage he has taking snaps? Do you really think an NFL coach is that incompetent that they cannot put together an effective gameplan? His gameplan won in spite of Palmer last year.

 

Take off your Palmer hating shades and give an honest unbiased opinion for once.

[CatsCatsCats]

And also FC as for this "I can admit when my team is bad" garbage, you were the one singing Carson's praises before the season and making every excuse in the world for him.

-"Oh, he's still recovering from injury"

-"The OC is bad"

-"He just needs weapons around him"

 

Carson is an awful QB IMO. He was last year, he is this year and he will be next year too. That has nothing to do with not liking him (though I don't because he is the coddled puppy of the Cincy fanbase), all it takes is watching him. He's not accurate, he's as dumb as a sack of rocks when he drops back to pass, and his team wins in spite of him.

[CatsCatsCats]

Take off your Palmer hating shades and give an honest unbiased opinion for once.

 

I will when some on here take off their black and orange sunglasses. Say what you want, but an unbiased person would tell you that Carson is awful right now.