A question for anyone in the know.

 

Several years ago spring practice was pushed hard as vital to improve KY football. I haven't seen it but I digress.

 

Does Ohio allow spring football practice? If so when and how many days?

 

I know they start fall practice later then KY does (they can't even hit the field until Aug. 1 if I'm not mistaken) but they are allowed 3 scrimmages again if I'm not mistaken.

 

The point I'm getting at is that it seems to me that Ohio is allowed less time on the field then Kentucky and yet is universally regarded as playing better HS football. How can that be?

If I may...

 

Ohio does NOT allow spring practice of any kind whatsoever. The only practice that is allowed during the summer is 10 days in july in helmets ONLY and they are termed as "instruction" type days. Often times a team may try to get a 7-on-7 in there during that time period.

 

As far as two-a-days go, these last generally for two weeks, with one week before those with helmets only, no pads, no hitting. Ohio only hits for 2 weeks before the games actually start.

 

Teams have only 2 scrimmages.

 

We are allowed SIGNIFICANTLY less time on the field than almost any state I know. The states in Ohio's class (Californial, Florida, Texas) all have Spring ball (practice and a game) plus a boat load of time during the summer.

 

I often wonder how much better our teams would be perceived if we had the kind of off-season practice time other states had.

 

-CardinalsFan

You guys are missing the reason, Ohio big Schools are large like 4000 kids, in Ky you only have a few Schools that big. a large School in NK is around 1600. Highlands would be a No. 3 and NC would be maybe a 4 and BW would be a 5 and they would kick Ohios but if you compare School size.

This is so inaccurate I don't even know where to begin. Let's try with simple facts first, then we will work our way up from there, shall we?

 

In the most recent enrollment figures for Ohio which were taken before the start of the 2009 academic school year, the single largest school for male enrollment in the entire state of Ohio was Fairfield high school with 1,227 boys, grades 10-12. If you extrapolate that to 4 grades (9-12), it's still only 1,636 male students. I'm not exactly sure why they don't count freshman but it's irrelevant.

 

I have no idea where you got 4,000 students. That is an insane number that NO SCHOOL IN OHIO is even close to.

 

As an aside, I learned last year from my good friends the Old Goats from Dupont Manual that in KY, they classify both boys and girls sports based on total enrollment. Which, I got to tell you, is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard of in my life. Manual, for example, has NO BUSINESS BEING A 6A school when their girl to boy ratio is something like 2-1. In Ohio, the boys sports are determined by male enrollment and the girls sports are determined by female enrollment. Seems like a fairly simple concept to me.

 

Aside 2: My alma mater, Colerain High School, is the 23rd largest in the state in terms of male enrollment in grades 10-12. 23rd. Other schools of interest and their ranking in the state:

 

Fairfield (in Colerain's league) - #1 with 1,227

St. Xavier (the Blue Bombers) - #2 with 1,171

St. Ignatius (10-time Div I state Champions) - #4 with 1,072

Colerain - #23 with 846

Middletown - #29 with 757

Elder - #44 with 689

Moeller - #48 with 671

LaSalle - #87 with 588

Glenville - #97 with 545

 

Anything else?

 

-CardinalsFan

Ohio may play a better brand of football but after watching the Florida team get jobbed in Columbus today, they don't have a better brand of officiating. Holy Cow.

Ohio may play a better brand of football but after watching the Florida team get jobbed in Columbus today, they don't have a better brand of officiating. Holy Cow.

That was embarassing, no question. Two very equal teams that probably go 5-5 if they play 10 games against each other. That game yesterday was one of Dwyer's 5 wins, no doubt.

 

-CF

Ohio has Ohio State, a football powerhouse. Kentucky has UK a basketball powerhouse with poor football tradition. Kids in Ohio dream of playing for OSU (or Michigan/Notre Dame), I think most kids in Kentucky dream of playing for the UK basketball team.

 

California has USC (&other teams), Texas has the Longhorns (& Cowboys), Florida has the Big 3, Pennsylvania has Penn State (& the Steelers).

 

I think it's just a mindset thing. Kentucky has some great football schools with a lot of tradition, but the ones that don't seem to favor basketball. Teams with both seem to favor basketball, like Mason and Lexington Catholic. Kentucky is becoming more of a Football state, but it will take some time to catch up to the big boys if it's even possible on the overall level.

This is so inaccurate I don't even know where to begin. Let's try with simple facts first, then we will work our way up from there, shall we?

 

In the most recent enrollment figures for Ohio which were taken before the start of the 2009 academic school year, the single largest school for male enrollment in the entire state of Ohio was Fairfield high school with 1,227 boys, grades 10-12. If you extrapolate that to 4 grades (9-12), it's still only 1,636 male students. I'm not exactly sure why they don't count freshman but it's irrelevant.

 

I have no idea where you got 4,000 students. That is an insane number that NO SCHOOL IN OHIO is even close to.

 

As an aside, I learned last year from my good friends the Old Goats from Dupont Manual that in KY, they classify both boys and girls sports based on total enrollment. Which, I got to tell you, is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard of in my life. Manual, for example, has NO BUSINESS BEING A 6A school when their girl to boy ratio is something like 2-1. In Ohio, the boys sports are determined by male enrollment and the girls sports are determined by female enrollment. Seems like a fairly simple concept to me.

 

Aside 2: My alma mater, Colerain High School, is the 23rd largest in the state in terms of male enrollment in grades 10-12. 23rd. Other schools of interest and their ranking in the state:

 

Fairfield (in Colerain's league) - #1 with 1,227

St. Xavier (the Blue Bombers) - #2 with 1,171

St. Ignatius (10-time Div I state Champions) - #4 with 1,072

Colerain - #23 with 846

Middletown - #29 with 757

Elder - #44 with 689

Moeller - #48 with 671

LaSalle - #87 with 588

Glenville - #97 with 545

 

Anything else?

 

-CardinalsFan

 

 

I am not sure what your friends at Manual were talking about since it is male enrollment that determines football classification here as well. That is why Louisville Central is not in a higher class.

I am not sure what your friends at Manual were talking about since it is male enrollment that determines football classification here as well. That is why Louisville Central is not in a higher class.

 

Bingo. If the Old Goats told CF that the KHSAA used total enrollment (boys and girls) to determine the football classes, the Old Goats were wrong. For football, only boys enrollment is used. The KHSAA used to use total enrollment, but when the KHSAA went with 6 classes, that changed. Maybe the Old Goats are indeed old and their memories failed to recall the KHSAA made that change.

:thumb: :thumb:

 

Dag gone it History, now you've posted something that I have to agree with.

 

It is watered down. The hope is, I'm told, that by watering it down and allowing more schools to advance deep into the playoffs, such will build more enthusiasm for football throughout Ky. We are still a basketball state and I saw the move to go with 6 classes as an attempt by the KHSAA to do something to help bring up the quality of high school football throughout the state. Some old timers believe that the overall increase in the quality of Ky high school football had a lot to do with them going to 4 classes in 75 (quality used to be even worse), and hope and believe that going to 6 classes will improve Ky high school football even more. I have no clue if that is correct thinking and at this point I think it's impossible for anyone to yet determine if they were right or wrong.

Dag gone it History, now you've posted something that I have to agree with.

 

It is watered down. The hope is, I'm told, that by watering it down and allowing more schools to advance deep into the playoffs, such will build more enthusiasm for football throughout Ky. We are still a basketball state and I saw the move to go with 6 classes as an attempt by the KHSAA to do something to help bring up the quality of high school football throughout the state. Some old timers believe that the overall increase in the quality of Ky high school football had a lot to do with them going to 4 classes in 75 (quality used to be even worse), and hope and believe that going to 6 classes will improve Ky high school football even more. I have no clue if that is correct thinking and at this point I think it's impossible for anyone to yet determine if they were right or wrong.

 

^ Of course, that line of reasoning leads to the conclusion that 219 classes would be best for the Commonwealth. I'm not at all certain that I agree.

 

Kinda like the Laffer curve. At some point there are diminishing returns. I'm thinking that point is at about 4 with respect to KY FB classes.

Dag gone it History, now you've posted something that I have to agree with.

 

It is watered down. The hope is, I'm told, that by watering it down and allowing more schools to advance deep into the playoffs, such will build more enthusiasm for football throughout Ky. We are still a basketball state and I saw the move to go with 6 classes as an attempt by the KHSAA to do something to help bring up the quality of high school football throughout the state. Some old timers believe that the overall increase in the quality of Ky high school football had a lot to do with them going to 4 classes in 75 (quality used to be even worse), and hope and believe that going to 6 classes will improve Ky high school football even more. I have no clue if that is correct thinking and at this point I think it's impossible for anyone to yet determine if they were right or wrong.

 

I guess I'm uncertain how it is that permitting 50% more schools to have deep playoff runs increases overall quality; particularly if most of those schools would not have been capable of those runs a couple of years ago.

I guess I'm uncertain how it is that permitting 50% more schools to have deep playoff runs increases overall quality; particularly if most of those schools would not have been capable of those runs a couple of years ago.

 

I think reducing the number of playoff teams would go along way to bettering KY football. Teams are too satisfied nowadays with just making the playoffs IMO. Make it something that does actually mean something again. 4 or 5 classes with 2 teams per district, or 3 teams per district with the district champion getting a bye or something.

^ Of course, that line of reasoning leads to the conclusion that 219 classes would be best for the Commonwealth. I'm not at all certain that I agree.

 

Kinda like the Laffer curve. At some point there are diminishing returns. I'm thinking that point is at about 4 with respect to KY FB classes.

 

Understood, although you might be taking things to just a little bit of an extreme with your conclusion that if 6 is good, 219 would be best. You think?

I guess I'm uncertain how it is that permitting 50% more schools to have deep playoff runs increases overall quality; particularly if most of those schools would not have been capable of those runs a couple of years ago.

 

I don't have the time to go over it again. Search one of the many threads on the matter and I'm sure you'll find why I think, repeat think, it will help. But I could be wrong.

This must be a northern KY thing because ( with all due respect) who really cares? I enjoy beating them, but the debate on who is "better" will never be won. Our goal (Trinity) is to win the KENTUCKY title, not OH. I guess because many of you live near Cincy, it must be a big issue. I say let it go. Life is too short. :ylsuper:

Bingo. If the Old Goats told CF that the KHSAA used total enrollment (boys and girls) to determine the football classes, the Old Goats were wrong. For football, only boys enrollment is used. The KHSAA used to use total enrollment, but when the KHSAA went with 6 classes, that changed. Maybe the Old Goats are indeed old and their memories failed to recall the KHSAA made that change.

You may very well be correct. They may not have known that with the move to 6 classes, the way to determine which class you are in was changed. Still, the fact that that was the method until a few years ago is insane to me!

 

-CF