With all the debate that health care shouldn't be considered a "right", it has caused me to give more thought to compulsory and public education. We consider education a "right". Why? This seems to be parallel issue.

 

Reasons that I can think of that it is a violation of our constitutional rights:

 

 

• A person should be able to choose whether they want their child to attend school, what school they will attend and what they will learn.
  
• An individual who has already educated themselves and their children shouldn't have to pay to educate the children of others.
  
• As has been well-discussed in the health care debates, the government does not manage revenues well, and they (IMO) do not do well at all in regards to education.
  
• Federal and State legislation prohibits communities and individuals from providing the best course of action for their own particular education system.
  
• By utilizing a tax based, state and federally legislated educational system, it is certain to be politicized.
  
• It is similar to the compulsory systems of totalitarian states
  

Just some thoughts I've had over the course of the last several months as I try to understand the opposition to the health care legislation.

 

As unpopular as my opinion might be, I must say that if I had to choose between the health care legislation and compulsory, public education, I'd rather have the health care, and let everyone choose to educate their children at their own expense.

What's in the Constitution are rights.

We can't be further apart on this one, RM. Children of uncaring parents still deserve to be educated.

We can't be further apart on this one, RM. Children of uncaring parents still deserve to be educated.

 

 

Sorry, TB&G, but on this, I'm the pragmatist.

Here is a good start.. Pay close attention to number ten..

 

THE BILL OF RIGHTS

Amendments 1-10 of the Constitution

 

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

 

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

 

Amendment III

No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

 

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

 

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

 

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

 

Amendment VII

In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

 

Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

 

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

 

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

We can't be further apart on this one, RM. Children of uncaring parents still deserve to be educated.

 

Just like children need health care, they deserve an education.

 

They didn't ask to be brought into this world nor responsible for their living conditions.

 

A country can be judged appropriately on how they treat the least that CANNOT help themselves. Children, mentally handicapped, true physically challenged(not someone that eats too much and limits their abilities), senior citizens, unborn children.

 

This country fails in too many of these areas. Churches in this country fail in too many of these areas.

There is no federal "right" to education.

 

From the book "Public Education in the United State" by Ellwood P. Cubberly -

 

"Education having been left to the States an unmentioned power by the tenth amendment to the Federal Constitution,..."

 

The Department of Education did not come into existence until 1980. Though there was for a short time a Federal department 1867. But was demoted to an office in 1868 because it was considered unconstitutional.

 

Education has traditionally been, and is still strongly considered a local and state issue. However, the Federal government uses its "power of the purse strings" to control elements of this non-federal entity by threatening to with hold federal monies to enforce its policies.

With all the debate that health care shouldn't be considered a "right", it has caused me to give more thought to compulsory and public education. We consider education a "right". Why? This seems to be parallel issue.

 

Reasons that I can think of that it is a violation of our constitutional rights:

 

 

• A person should be able to choose whether they want their child to attend school, what school they will attend and what they will learn.
  
• An individual who has already educated themselves and their children shouldn't have to pay to educate the children of others.
  
• As has been well-discussed in the health care debates, the government does not manage revenues well, and they (IMO) do not do well at all in regards to education.
  
• Federal and State legislation prohibits communities and individuals from providing the best course of action for their own particular education system.
  
• By utilizing a tax based, state and federally legislated educational system, it is certain to be politicized.
  
• It is similar to the compulsory systems of totalitarian states
  

Just some thoughts I've had over the course of the last several months as I try to understand the opposition to the health care legislation.

 

As unpopular as my opinion might be, I must say that if I had to choose between the health care legislation and compulsory, public education, I'd rather have the health care, and let everyone choose to educate their children at their own expense.

 

:thumb:

 

I agree with this. I'd never thought of a parallel between education and health care. Thanks for a thought provoking post, RM. I don't think either are "rights", nor should the government be spending billions or trillions of dollars on either.

If you are unhappy with the way the government runs education what makes people think government controlled health care will be any different??

If you are unhappy with the way the government runs education what makes people think government controlled health care will be any different??

 

As always, we like the money but don't care for being told how to use it.

While we are on the subject of rights, could someone educate me on equal opportunity employment ? Are companies required to meet a quota of some type or is it just encouraged ?

:thumb:

 

I agree with this. I'd never thought of a parallel between education and health care. Thanks for a thought provoking post, RM. I don't think either are "rights", nor should the government be spending billions or trillions of dollars on either.

 

 

Thank you for considering the post in the manner it was intended.

 

I've been really considering the different "rights" we enjoy in America, especially those not guaranteed by the Consitution.

 

I also have spent some time, for a different reason, researching the "evolution" of public, tax-payer funded education. Not just in the United States, but from the earliest times, back to Plato.

 

Very interesting, the evolution of public education.

The problem is that, if you're uneducated, your children are likely to be uneducated. It is not this generation that we are worried about, but generations in the future.

 

Education has been deemed one of the fundamental rights in today's society - similar to the right to be employed or own property. The rationale behind it is that, if a large portion of people are uneducated, you'll see an even greater disparity between the wealthy and the poor. Education enables people to overcome the situations they were born into and prevents a caste-like society.

What's in the Constitution are rights.

 

Is the origin of those rights the constitution? If we take them out of the Constitution do those rights cease to exist? If we add something to the Constitution does a right get created? What is the ultimate source of a right?

The problem is that, if you're uneducated, your children are likely to be uneducated. It is not this generation that we are worried about, but generations in the future.

 

Education has been deemed one of the fundamental rights in today's society - similar to the right to be employed or own property. The rationale behind it is that, if a large portion of people are uneducated, you'll see an even greater disparity between the wealthy and the poor. Education enables people to overcome the situations they were born into and prevents a caste-like society.

 

 

Great argument, and I can largely agree. But, as with health care, this is a "right" that is founded upon the concept "greater good" right? It's for the good of the society.