I'm not a Tubby fan, but he deserves a lot of credit for that championship in 1998. He did an excellent job coaching that team. People love to say it was Pitino's players, but I've never felt like Pitino would have accomplished the same thing with that team.

 

That team wasn't at a talent level where you could say anyone could have won with them. Tubby pushed the right buttons with that group, and I'm not convinced that Pitino would have. But that's just a guess. There's no way to no for sure.

 

One of my big problems with Tubby was not the bottom line results. You look back and see a national title, 2 more elite 8's, back-to-back #1 seeds near the middle of the decade, great winning percentage...it looks good on paper. My dissatisfaction was largely based on the fact that other than the championship in his first season, Tubby only had one team that was a legitimate title contender and that was the '02-'03 season when Bogans rolled his ankle and D-Wade had his coming out party.

 

There wasn't a single other UK team that was a serious threat, if a threat at all, to win a championship. Nobody really thought that '03-'04 squad could win a championship...and they lost in the second round.

 

You don't have to win big every year at UK. But, you do need to produce teams that have legit title hopes more frequently than Tubby did. That's my thoughts anyway.

I'm not a Tubby fan, but he deserves a lot of credit for that championship in 1998. He did an excellent job coaching that team. People love to say it was Pitino's players, but I've never felt like Pitino would have accomplished the same thing with that team.

 

That team wasn't at a talent level where you could say anyone could have won with them. Tubby pushed the right buttons with that group, and I'm not convinced that Pitino would have. But that's just a guess. There's no way to no for sure.

 

One of my big problems with Tubby was not the bottom line results. You look back and see a national title, 2 more elite 8's, back-to-back #1 seeds near the middle of the decade, great winning percentage...it looks good on paper. My dissatisfaction was largely based on the fact that other than the championship in his first season, Tubby only had one team that was a legitimate title contender and that was the '02-'03 season when Bogans rolled his ankle and D-Wade had his coming out party.

 

There wasn't a single other UK team that was a serious threat, if a threat at all, to win a championship. Nobody really thought that '03-'04 squad could win a championship...and they lost in the second round.

 

You don't have to win big every year at UK. But, you do need to produce teams that have legit title hopes more frequently than Tubby did. That's my thoughts anyway.

I am with you on the premise of everything you are saying except the bolded. They were the top overall seed going in to the tournament, so I am not sure I am buying that.

 

If you are a top 2 seed, I would say that is putting a team in legit contention to win the title. Tournament results aside, I simply look at what seed a team is to gauge the type of season they had. In Tubby's tenure, they were a 2, 3, 5, 2, 4, 1, 1, 2, 8, and 8. That may not be fully reflective of the landscape of college basketball or UK culture at the time of his departure, but that pretty much shows where people think of UK at the end of the season. While not world beater status, that is still pretty solid.

I am with you on the premise of everything you are saying except the bolded. They were the top overall seed going in to the tournament, so I am not sure I am buying that.

 

If you are a top 2 seed, I would say that is putting a team in legit contention to win the title. Tournament results aside, I simply look at what seed a team is to gauge the type of season they had. In Tubby's tenure, they were a 2, 3, 5, 2, 4, 1, 1, 2, 8, and 8. That may not be fully reflective of the landscape of college basketball or UK culture at the time of his departure, but that pretty much shows where people think of UK at the end of the season. While not world beater status, that is still pretty solid.

 

Like I said, on paper it looks good. But, 2003 is the only time they entered the tournament when I thought they could win it. That's not acceptable at UK.

 

In 2004, they may have been the #1 overall, but nobody outside of die hard UK fans thought they could win the whole thing. They were a scrappy team that played well together. When you're talking about a championship, they lacked the elite talent level, and they didn't have that one guy that you need in March who can be a difference maker. I know the experts that I remember from that year weren't real high on UK's chances considering they were the #1 overall seed.

 

However, considering the strangeness of that tournament...

 

1. The lack of traditional powers at the top. (St. Joseph's, Duke and Stanford were the other #1's and Oklahoma State, Gonzaga, Mississippi State and UConn were the #2's).

 

2. Two #1's (UK and Stanford) and two #2's (Gonzaga and Mississippi State) were eliminated in the second round of the tournament. Half of the top 8 seeds didn't make it out of the first weekend.

 

...I'm not inclined to argue this point with conviction. :thumb:

No, not at all.

 

1) You guys aren't joking.

 

2) This was talked about to no end on here about 1,000,000,000 times already. What's the purpose of bringing something so pointless back up.

 

1) Thanks for telling us what we are or are not thinking.

 

2) A reporter is saying he may change jobs again. Discussing the circumstances of his last job change is relevent. All the rest of this nonsense is just funny. Still such a sensitive issue.

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not the fact about Tubby that ticked off MOST UK fans was the fact that after '03 his teams got less and less talented and less and less fun to watch. His style of ball is the most boring to watch, and after being spoiled by the Pitino teams up tempo we wanted and expected more. As a UK fan I am not ashamed to expect top teams every year. It isn't like the cats have any competition in the state or even region to interfear with their money raising or recruiting. The fact that the fans and citizens of this STATE pump so many millions of dollars into the university just in shirts and hats shows why we are like this. UK is really the only college team that you can legitimately say has the support, and Identity of an entire state. UK is not Lexingtons team it is KY's team. The last two coaches couldn't grasp and embrace that and for that reason one is now coaching at a 3rd tear school and the other is in rehab. If Tubby was such a great coach then why wasn't some of the top programs in Basketball trying to get him instead of letting him go to Minn?

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not the fact about Tubby that ticked off MOST UK fans was the fact that after '03 his teams got less and less talented and less and less fun to watch. His style of ball is the most boring to watch, and after being spoiled by the Pitino teams up tempo we wanted and expected more. As a UK fan I am not ashamed to expect top teams every year. It isn't like the cats have any competition in the state or even region to interfear with their money raising or recruiting. The fact that the fans and citizens of this STATE pump so many millions of dollars into the university just in shirts and hats shows why we are like this. UK is really the only college team that you can legitimately say has the support, and Identity of an entire state. UK is not Lexingtons team it is KY's team. The last two coaches couldn't grasp and embrace that and for that reason one is now coaching at a 3rd tear school and the other is in rehab. If Tubby was such a great coach then why wasn't some of the top programs in Basketball trying to get him instead of letting him go to Minn?

 

Welcome to BGP hillbillybullet and be sure to visit the New Member forum....

 

New Member forum

 

Read the "Everything a Rookie" thread and it will answer any questions.

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not the fact about Tubby that ticked off MOST UK fans was the fact that after '03 his teams got less and less talented and less and less fun to watch. His style of ball is the most boring to watch, and after being spoiled by the Pitino teams up tempo we wanted and expected more. As a UK fan I am not ashamed to expect top teams every year. It isn't like the cats have any competition in the state or even region to interfear with their money raising or recruiting. The fact that the fans and citizens of this STATE pump so many millions of dollars into the university just in shirts and hats shows why we are like this. UK is really the only college team that you can legitimately say has the support, and Identity of an entire state. UK is not Lexingtons team it is KY's team. The last two coaches couldn't grasp and embrace that and for that reason one is now coaching at a 3rd tear school and the other is in rehab. If Tubby was such a great coach then why wasn't some of the top programs in Basketball trying to get him instead of letting him go to Minn?

 

And you can't admit that you are still ticked off because he did win a title. The pressure got to him the last few years when he had the McDonalds All Amercans and they didn't react well to his style of coaching. Turns our Morris was just lazy, Rondo never bought in, Crawford suffered from a lack of confidence and Tubby couldn't turn them as UK fans hoped for. He did better when he had the mid-tier players who had big hearts and didn't know how to quit (Hayes comes to mind).

 

He took the Minnesota job for one reason, .... it didn't have the pressure that UK has. He was burned out and a change was necessary for he and for UK.

 

And you MUST be right. He couldn't have taken 4 different teams to multiple NCAA tourneys because he can coach. It must have been something else. :idunno:

Final Four yes. Kentucky lost in the "Elite Eight" to Marquette in 2003 and Michigan State (2OT) in 2005.

 

Also lost to Michigan State in elite eight in 1999.

The pressure got to him the last few years when he had the McDonalds All Amercans and they didn't react well to his style of coaching. Turns our Morris was just lazy, Rondo never bought in, Crawford suffered from a lack of confidence and Tubby couldn't turn them as UK fans hoped for. He did better when he had the mid-tier players who had big hearts and didn't know how to quit (Hayes comes to mind).

 

That's the problem.

 

1) He couldn't or wouldn't consistently land big time prospects.

2) He couldn't maintain an acceptable level of success with the recruits he did get (school record final four drought).

3) When he did land big time recruits, he couldn't coach them.

Good for Tubby. As long as he's coaching anywhere but UK I hope he does well.

There are a million threads about how Tubby ruined UK. Go find one to post in.