Where in the world did you read that?

 

Revolted is my word, but I think it sums up the heartbreak (again my word) expressed by Rockmom in post 23. I am much more interested in providing solutions for the vast majority that don't abuse the system than I am in making sure that no one ever gets something they didn't deserve.

For those of you who claim that employers pay into the unemployment fund, ask an economist. It is paid in as a result of the labor of the employee. Employee labor pays for the unemployment insurance just as it pays for health insurance, paid vacation, holidays, sick time and any other benefit received.

Well, if it's all from the sweat of the employee's brow, it seems that not hiring full time employees would eliminate the cost of Unemployment Insurance Taxes, other taxes and fees that drive up the cost of labor for all employers whether they have one or ten thousand employees.

 

I'm all for the dignity and respect for hired laborers, providing reasonable safeguards for their income, health and safety, but the growing resentment and disparaging and outright lack of appreciation for those willing to take a risk, stick their necks out and provide jobs for others is appalling.

 

Any common mutt has the decency not to bite the hand that feeds it. Washington taxing the everloving life out of the people creating and providing jobs and picking up the bulk of the tax load is a receipe for disaster.

I'm all for the dignity and respect for hired laborers, providing reasonable safeguards for their income, health and safety, but the growing resentment and disparaging and outright lack of appreciation for those willing to take a risk, stick their necks out and provide jobs for others is appalling.

 

 

I'm not sure if you include me in that group, but I wish the best of fortune to all those who start businesses. When I bought my first house my uncle said "Someday I hope I have one this nice and you get one twice as good". It is the way I feel about the good fortune of others. Most of the time, "good luck" seems to follow people with talant and hard work. I am in favor of people making lots of money, but the attitude I get from a lot of posters on this board is that everyone is a leach except you and me and I'm not too sure about you. The vast majority of people work hard and try to do the right thing. Are there some that don"t? Sure, but I'm not losing sleep about it. There seems to be so much resentment in a lot of these posts. I choose not to live that way. And by the way, before the right wingnuts get their panties in a wad, the resentment comes from both sides. Get over it.

Edited February 26, 201016 yr by rockmom
fixed quote

I'm not sure if you include me in that group, but I wish the best of fortune to all those who start businesses. When I bought my first house my uncle said "Someday I hope I have one this nice and you get one twice as good". It is the way I feel about the good fortune of others. Most of the time, "good luck" seems to follow people with talant and hard work. I am in favor of people making lots of money, but the attitude I get from a lot of posters on this board is that everyone is a leach except you and me and I'm not too sure about you. The vast majority of people work hard and try to do the right thing. Are there some that don"t? Sure, but I'm not losing sleep about it. There seems to be so much resentment in a lot of these posts. I choose not to live that way. And by the way, before the right wingnuts get their panties in a wad, the resentment comes from both sides. Get over it.

I have no real beef with you. We've never met face to face... chances are, if we did, we most likely would actually like one another and find that we have more in common than not.

 

I also have no problem with anyone actually making an effort to do the best they can do with whatever they may have to work with. God bless them... sincerely.

 

I have a major problem with a egomaniacal powerjerks in suits that have never faced the challenge of meeting a payroll, paying unemployment insurance taxes for their employees, training unexperienced workers, etc. trying to tell those of us that do those things we're not doing it right, we need to pay more, we just happen to have won life's lottery and owe our increase to those less fortunate. There are few "healthy" individuals who began life in more humble circumstances than mine.

 

I get tired politicians fueling class warfare and pandering to the down-and-out, all while doing everything they can to ensure a bumper crop of down-and-outers they can convince to vote for them and keep them in power. There will always be more "less fortunate" than there are "achievers" simply because achievement and success require years of hard work, discipline, sacrifice, commitment. Yes there are some exceptions... but for the most part, success requires effort... and even then, it is not guaranteed.

 

There was a time in this country... back when we were still a great nation, that success was celebrated. It was honored as the fruit of a life and talents well applied. Today it seems that individual success is disparaged as being nothing more than a lucky turn of the wheel of fortune.

 

The truly compassionate goal should be to lift as many from government dependency as possible. Encourage them to reach for a better more self-sufficient life. Not only would this benefit countless lives and families, it would generate unprecedented taxes and revenues at reduced tax rates. It would reduce the number of needy dependent on government welfare.

 

The problem for politicians is, certain government saviors would be out of work.

:lol: Honestly, I can only think of one person I can say I actually hate and for good reason. If you knew this person, you'd totally understand why.

 

I thought we were okay now RTS.

I have no real beef with you. We've never met face to face... chances are, if we did, we most likely would actually like one another and find that we have more in common than not.

 

I also have no problem with anyone actually making an effort to do the best they can do with whatever they may have to work with. God bless them... sincerely.

 

I have a major problem with a egomaniacal powerjerks in suits that have never faced the challenge of meeting a payroll, paying unemployment insurance taxes for their employees, training unexperienced workers, etc. trying to tell those of us that do those things we're not doing it right, we need to pay more, we just happen to have won life's lottery and owe our increase to those less fortunate. There are few "healthy" individuals who began life in more humble circumstances than mine.

 

I get tired politicians fueling class warfare and pandering to the down-and-out, all while doing everything they can to ensure a bumper crop of down-and-outers they can convince to vote for them and keep them in power. There will always be more "less fortunate" than there are "achievers" simply because achievement and success require years of hard work, discipline, sacrifice, commitment. Yes there are some exceptions... but for the most part, success requires effort... and even then, it is not guaranteed.

 

There was a time in this country... back when we were still a great nation, that success was celebrated. It was honored as the fruit of a life and talents well applied. Today it seems that individual success is disparaged as being nothing more than a lucky turn of the wheel of fortune.

 

The truly compassionate goal should be to lift as many from government dependency as possible. Encourage them to reach for a better more self-sufficient life. Not only would this benefit countless lives and families, it would generate unprecedented taxes and revenues at reduced tax rates. It would reduce the number of needy dependent on government welfare.

 

The problem for politicians is, certain government saviors would be out of work.

 

 

I don't own a business, and never have. However, I've been in postitions to know what's going on financially in the companies I work for, and to have to take steps in managing payroll, etc.

 

I'm not at all anti-business owner. But I sure as heck am against the sentiment that the business owner is somehow the victim in most cases. I'm also against the pevelant sentiment that people who are out of work and on unemployment are looking for a handout.

 

It's easy to say that "there are jobs out there". But, the truth is, there are very few jobs out there for the number of people applying. It's an employer's market right now. No longer is it a case of taking what you can get, because there are plenty of people at all levels of education and experience applying.

 

I'm now seeing more people rejected because they are over-qualified. Our HR feels that they are likely to be "bored" with the job. As well, as you mention, turnover is always an expensive scenario.

 

I can't simply look at it from a numbers perspective, or from the perspective of the employer. In the words of my mother: There but for the grace of God go I.

 

I am extraordinarly fortunate, IMO, to have my job still. I'm fortunate because I work where I work, and not because of what I do. We are only one of our comp-set that has not laid off employees, eliminated positions or (in some cases) eliminated ENTIRE departments and replaced those employees with outside contract labor for those positions. The people that were "eliminated" had worked in their positions for years. The outside contracts require no benefits from the company, no workers comp contributions, etc.

 

I understand the need to control payroll, and that payroll is the most manageable of any company's expense. So, you don't have to tell me all that.

 

And, as a side note, Bunning Blocks Extended Jobless Aid.

 

So, some of you may applaud, saying this'll get those lazy butts back to work. But, unless employers start hiring full time workers, taking a chance on overqualified people, bringing workforces back up, these are going to wind up being prime candidates for our welfare benefits system.

I thought we were okay now RTS.

:lol: Could never hate a good sensible guy like you, Hatz. :thumb:

Thanks for the laugh though!

I'm not sure if you include me in that group, but I wish the best of fortune to all those who start businesses. When I bought my first house my uncle said "Someday I hope I have one this nice and you get one twice as good". It is the way I feel about the good fortune of others. Most of the time, "good luck" seems to follow people with talant and hard work. I am in favor of people making lots of money, but the attitude I get from a lot of posters on this board is that everyone is a leach except you and me and I'm not too sure about you. The vast majority of people work hard and try to do the right thing. Are there some that don"t? Sure, but I'm not losing sleep about it. There seems to be so much resentment in a lot of these posts. I choose not to live that way. And by the way, before the right wingnuts get their panties in a wad, the resentment comes from both sides. Get over it.

No one, I repeat, no one said that everyone is a leach that's on unemployment. Perhaps we're not the ones that need to "get over it".

In the words of my mother: There but for the grace of God go I.

Sounds to me like your mom might agree with me that “God’s grace” is something directly attributable to Him… is something we cannot earn, and is therefore something for which we should give Him thanks. I would even go so far as to say it is a “blessing” to have a good job when so many around us are struggling… BUT I know better than to put words in your mouth… or your dear mother’s. I do however; thank God for what I genuinely consider a blessing from Him.

 

I don’t know that I have ever expressed disdain for anyone out of work that actually wants to work. I’ve been there before. I’ve also been both over and under qualified for jobs I’ve applied to do. I've gotten jobs I was unqualified to hold, and worked my tail off to grow and keep them. I have taken jobs I was over qualified for, but needed to make ends meet until something better came along. I've been denied for jobs I was over or under qualified for, as well as those I was perfectly qualified to hold. That's life... at least by my experience. My heart sincerely goes out to every individual in these circumstances.

 

I strongly believe you cannot help the poor by tearing down the successful. Class envy and class warfare are extraordinarily destructive to everyone... but moreso to the poor that need to avoid giving in to the urge to wallow in self-pity and indignation. You can best help the poor by teaching them how to be successful too… the old “Teach them to fish instead of just giving them a fish” scenario.

 

Some of the steps for success IMO are as follows:

 

• Get an education… check... virtually everyone in the U.S. has access to “free” or subsidized public education. Granted, some have better options than others, but no one is rejected out of hand and is unable to learn how to read, write, do math and develop marketable skills. Abe Lincoln was raised in a single room log cabin with a dirt floor and no public school nearby much of his youth. You can learn in America if you understand the value of learning and have the want to.
   
  
• Get a job, any job, and work your tail off. Success is never assured, but most often follows commitment to excellence and diligence… whoops… this one is kinda falling out of favor… it’s too old fashioned. Everyone apparently “deserves” equal rewards regardless of skills and efforts.
   
  
• Spend less than you earn and save what you can… yeah right… “…but I need that 50 inch LCD to watch American Idol now.”
   
  
• Continue to learn and develop marketable skills. Make yourself more valuable to your employer. “I dunno, that sounds hard… besides, I need time to hang with my buds…”
   
  
• Don’t have sex outside of marriage… “You’re joking, right?”
   
  
• Put off having babies at least until you are out of school and married, and ideally until you are able to provide for your child (children)… whoops, that’s not politically correct.
   
  
• Work at staying married to the same person… whoops again… who am I to suggest such a thing? “Everyone knows marriage is a convenience not a commitment and some spouses just don’t know how to be loving, kind, supportive, etc.” ( I realize there are legitimate exceptions to this, my problem is not with good individuals abused or cheated on by selfish mates where divorce is unavoidable… it’s with the cheapening of the sanctity of marriage throughout our culture and the forsaking of the selfless virtues necessary by two people to make a marriage thrive. )
   
  
• Go to Church. Get involved with God and in serving others. While I firmly believe there is nothing we can ever do to "earn" or "deserve" God's grace and blessings... I do believe it is entirely possible to "position" ourselves to better receive the good things our loving Father wants to bestow upon us. Call me crazy... I can take it. All I know is that just like the old saying, "The harder I work, the luckier I get" the closer I am to God, the more I'm in line with His Word and teaching, the more blessed I am. He is my source.
  

My point is that although success and building wealth is not easy and can be elusive no matter what you do... by simply following a few basic guidelines it does become more attainable for virtually any American… and assures you of greater happiness over a lifetime regardless of your financial circumstances than you may ever attain by not following them.

 

My contempt is not toward anyone trying or actually doing… it’s for puffed up politicians that come across like Robin Hood publicly, but every policy, bill and action only serves to prolong the need of those in need. That’s the way they want it. That’s the voter base that gives them their power.

Sounds to me like your mom might agree with me that “God’s grace” is something directly attributable to Him… is something we cannot earn, and is therefore something for which we should give Him thanks. I would even go so far as to say it is a “blessing” to have a good job when so many around us are struggling… BUT I know better than to put words in your mouth… or your dear mother’s. I do however; thank God for what I genuinely consider a blessing from Him.

 

I don’t know that I have ever expressed disdain for anyone out of work that actually wants to work. I’ve been there before. I’ve also been both over and under qualified for jobs I’ve applied to do. I've gotten jobs I was unqualified to hold, and worked my tail off to grow and keep them. I have taken jobs I was over qualified for, but needed to make ends meet until something better came along. I've been denied for jobs I was over or under qualified for, as well as those I was perfectly qualified to hold. That's life... at least by my experience. My heart sincerely goes out to every individual in these circumstances.

 

I strongly believe you cannot help the poor by tearing down the successful. Class envy and class warfare are extraordinarily destructive to everyone... but moreso to the poor that need to avoid giving in to the urge to wallow in self-pity and indignation. You can best help the poor by teaching them how to be successful too… the old “Teach them to fish instead of just giving them a fish” scenario.

 

Some of the steps for success IMO are as follows:

 

• Get an education… check... virtually everyone in the U.S. has access to “free” or subsidized public education. Granted, some have better options than others, but no one is rejected out of hand and is unable to learn how to read, write, do math and develop marketable skills. Abe Lincoln was raised in a single room log cabin with a dirt floor and no public school nearby much of his youth. You can learn in America if you understand the value of learning and have the want to.
  
• Get a job, any job, and work your tail off. Success is never assured, but most often follows commitment to excellence and diligence… whoops… this one is kinda falling out of favor… it’s too old fashioned. Everyone apparently “deserves” equal rewards regardless of skills and efforts.
  
• Spend less than you earn and save what you can… yeah right… “…but I need that 50 inch LCD to watch American Idol now.”
  
• Continue to learn and develop marketable skills. Make yourself more valuable to your employer. “I dunno, that sounds hard… besides, I need time to hang with my buds…”
  
• Don’t have sex outside of marriage… “You’re joking, right?”
  
• Put off having babies at least until you are out of school and married, and ideally until you are able to provide for your child (children)… whoops, that’s not politically correct.
  
• Work at staying married to the same person… whoops again… who am I to suggest such a thing? “Everyone knows marriage is a convenience not a commitment and some spouses just don’t know how to be loving, kind, supportive, etc.” ( I realize there are legitimate exceptions to this, my problem is not with good individuals abused or cheated on by selfish mates where divorce is unavoidable… it’s with the cheapening of the sanctity of marriage throughout our culture and the forsaking of the selfless virtues necessary by two people to make a marriage thrive. )
  
• Go to Church. Get involved with God and in serving others. While I firmly believe there is nothing we can ever do to "earn" or "deserve" God's grace and blessings... I do believe it is entirely possible to "position" ourselves to better receive the good things our loving Father wants to bestow upon us. Call me crazy... I can take it. All I know is that just like the old saying, "The harder I work, the luckier I get" the closer I am to God, the more I'm in line with His Word and teaching, the more blessed I am. He is my source.
  

My point is that although success and building wealth is not easy and can be elusive no matter what you do... by simply following a few basic guidelines it does become more attainable for virtually any American… and assures you of greater happiness over a lifetime regardless of your financial circumstances than you may ever attain by not following them.

 

My contempt is not toward anyone trying or actually doing… it’s for puffed up politicians that come across like Robin Hood publicly, but every policy, bill and action only serves to prolong the need of those in need. That’s the way they want it. That’s the voter base that gives them their power.

 

Fastbreak, what you post is absolutely agreeable to me in every way. BUT, there are factors that will hopefully agree, have rendered many who have led a responsible life unemployed. Some are even now homeless.

 

Not everyone will be rich; not everyone will start their own business; not everyone will get a college education. But that doesn't mean that they are any less responsible or hardworking. The times we face now are not always going to reward those who've worked hard.

 

I believe the same as TrinityAlum. I don't believe in throwing out the whole bushel of apples because a few are rotten. I don't believe in sacrificing the majority of those who truly need help for the relative few that abuse the system.

 

As I've outlined at least twice in the past, the entire aid system needs to be overhauled, but I do NOT believe it needs to be eliminated. We live in America, the richest nation in the world. We are a generous nation to other nations in need, both via government aid and aid we donate personally. The system we have in place isn't perfect. But it does ensure that our citizens are able to eat, be housed and try to improve their lives from the lowest point. And there are millions of stories out there of people who've received aid and gone on to lead productive, fulfilling lives. There's no way I support any sort of legislation that eliminates aid. It goes against everything I believe in. It may be damaged, but it CAN be improved. It won't happen overnight, and it won't be easy. But both sides need to stop digging their heels in and start moving toward the middle. I believe there are good ideas on both sides. Not everything is automatically "good" or "bad" just because one or the other side proposes it. But that's exactly what's happening, and the people who are suffering don't have one bit of say in getting anything done.

 

As has been proven over and over and over, once elected, the same games continue to play.

 

But what I do believe about the Obama administration is that they are committed to change. You may not like that change. Others may like it. But they are committed to it. Unfortunately, in the Senate and the House there are only those who feel that the status quo bickering and in-fighting are worthy of their time.

Sounds to me like your mom might agree with me that “God’s grace” is something directly attributable to Him… is something we cannot earn, and is therefore something for which we should give Him thanks. I would even go so far as to say it is a “blessing” to have a good job when so many around us are struggling… BUT I know better than to put words in your mouth… or your dear mother’s. I do however; thank God for what I genuinely consider a blessing from Him.

 

I don’t know that I have ever expressed disdain for anyone out of work that actually wants to work. I’ve been there before. I’ve also been both over and under qualified for jobs I’ve applied to do. I've gotten jobs I was unqualified to hold, and worked my tail off to grow and keep them. I have taken jobs I was over qualified for, but needed to make ends meet until something better came along. I've been denied for jobs I was over or under qualified for, as well as those I was perfectly qualified to hold. That's life... at least by my experience. My heart sincerely goes out to every individual in these circumstances.

 

I strongly believe you cannot help the poor by tearing down the successful. Class envy and class warfare are extraordinarily destructive to everyone... but moreso to the poor that need to avoid giving in to the urge to wallow in self-pity and indignation. You can best help the poor by teaching them how to be successful too… the old “Teach them to fish instead of just giving them a fish” scenario.

 

Some of the steps for success IMO are as follows:

 

• Get an education… check... virtually everyone in the U.S. has access to “free” or subsidized public education. Granted, some have better options than others, but no one is rejected out of hand and is unable to learn how to read, write, do math and develop marketable skills. Abe Lincoln was raised in a single room log cabin with a dirt floor and no public school nearby much of his youth. You can learn in America if you understand the value of learning and have the want to.
   
  
• Get a job, any job, and work your tail off. Success is never assured, but most often follows commitment to excellence and diligence… whoops… this one is kinda falling out of favor… it’s too old fashioned. Everyone apparently “deserves” equal rewards regardless of skills and efforts.
   
  
• Spend less than you earn and save what you can… yeah right… “…but I need that 50 inch LCD to watch American Idol now.”
   
  
• Continue to learn and develop marketable skills. Make yourself more valuable to your employer. “I dunno, that sounds hard… besides, I need time to hang with my buds…”
   
  
• Don’t have sex outside of marriage… “You’re joking, right?”
   
  
• Put off having babies at least until you are out of school and married, and ideally until you are able to provide for your child (children)… whoops, that’s not politically correct.
   
  
• Work at staying married to the same person… whoops again… who am I to suggest such a thing? “Everyone knows marriage is a convenience not a commitment and some spouses just don’t know how to be loving, kind, supportive, etc.” ( I realize there are legitimate exceptions to this, my problem is not with good individuals abused or cheated on by selfish mates where divorce is unavoidable… it’s with the cheapening of the sanctity of marriage throughout our culture and the forsaking of the selfless virtues necessary by two people to make a marriage thrive. )
   
  
• Go to Church. Get involved with God and in serving others. While I firmly believe there is nothing we can ever do to "earn" or "deserve" God's grace and blessings... I do believe it is entirely possible to "position" ourselves to better receive the good things our loving Father wants to bestow upon us. Call me crazy... I can take it. All I know is that just like the old saying, "The harder I work, the luckier I get" the closer I am to God, the more I'm in line with His Word and teaching, the more blessed I am. He is my source.
  

My point is that although success and building wealth is not easy and can be elusive no matter what you do... by simply following a few basic guidelines it does become more attainable for virtually any American… and assures you of greater happiness over a lifetime regardless of your financial circumstances than you may ever attain by not following them.

 

My contempt is not toward anyone trying or actually doing… it’s for puffed up politicians that come across like Robin Hood publicly, but every policy, bill and action only serves to prolong the need of those in need. That’s the way they want it. That’s the voter base that gives them their power.

 

Sorry, did not add to the discussion.

Thank you Dave Ramsey.

Mom, you are such a softie... ( except with me usually... :cry: :cry: :cry: )

 

That's the good difference between nuturing mothers and loving but objective focused dads. God knew what He was doing when He made us. Between the two male and female counterparts, we make up the parenting qualities of God Himself. Nurturing, disciplining, encouraging, strengthening...

 

I have no problem helping those down on their luck ( ...as I think you might word it... ) Everyone, including myself needs or has needed a helping hand from time to time. I'm all for that... within reason and within budget. I do however; have all kinds of problems a government system that encourages sloth by discouraging initiative and individual achievement... and with politicians that encourage class envy and warfare. John Edwards made all kinds of hay with his "Two Americas" bull crap, when he was part of the first tier wealthy with no genuine desire to mingle with the second tier riff-raff. Everything was a photo op and soundbite designed to give him the most powerful job in the world. He didn't give a rat's patootie about the poor, the rednecks, the trailer trash, the urban ghetto playahs, the hicks, hayseeds, the true down-and-out... other than their precious votes. It is now very clear what a huge hypocrite he was. He is only one of many in DC. Government welfare has done more to tear apart inner city families than anything we could have come up with. In over 45 years of the government's "War on Poverty" with trillions spent, our poor aren't substantially better off than they were when LBJ kicked it off... if anything... on a percentage basis, we may actually have more poor today than in 1964.

 

I have a problem with the segregating and compartmentalizing of every group and special interest... African Americans, Native Americans, Latino Americans, Gay and Lesbian Americans, etc. We are Americans. We should be pulling together for the benefit of all. Not trying to pull apart a bigger chunk for our special group or interest. Not Nebraska getting hundreds of millions for their state Medicare system so Ben Nelson will vote for this turkey of a healthcare bill or Mary Landrieu getting hundreds of millions for Louisiana for her vote. Not with BO promising multiple times on the campaign trail that anyone earning less than $250,000 will not see one dime in increased taxes... and now he's "agnostic" about raising taxes on the middle class.

 

Say anything to get the power. Do anything you want once you have the power. Liars, hypocrites, snakes. It's time to send them all home and start fresh in the White House and Congress.

Sorry, did not add to the discussion.

Wow... that's kind of brutal... but since you "know of what you speak" I guess I owe you and everyone in this thread an apology...

 

But first I will say that I do not work as a teacher. I am not a government employee. I do not receive insurance as part of an employer's plan. I am not on Medicare or Medicaid. I am apparently among the 6% in this nation that pays for my family's insurance and healthcare out of my own pocket. I am not wealthy. I was certainly not born to wealthy parents. I have had nothing handed to me. I worked 20 jobs in four years to put myself through college. I have done everything from carpentry to sign painting to running my own business since college to support my family. I have had times where there was not enough work and income, and times with more work than I could possibly take on. I have had employees and been a one-man-band. We have faced hard times together. We have fought on and stuck together through thick and thin. We learned to count our blessings and give God praise through times of plenty and times of want.

 

There is not one thing I said in post 54 that is not true and beneficial to anyone in similar circumstances. It would be selfish to know these things to be true and not share them with others who may benefit as well. The fact that our culture and government have mislead people into believing that such old fashioned virtues and what was once considered common sense no longer apply has led many down a path of disappointment and ruin. I realize none of this offers an instant fix to some good person currently unemployed... but it does offer the opportunity over time to reduce one's dependence and vulnerability to fickle financial times such as these.

 

So... in that regard, I respectfully disagree with your comment, and will withhold my apology for the time being. :thumb:

Sorry, did not add to the discussion.

 

It did for pretty much everybody but you.

 

Well said FB.