The discussion about fat people and why they're fat and why I'm insensitive is irrelevant to the debate.

 

The issue can be simplified : Does a flying passenger's ticket include his/her space and the ability to be free from anyone for any reason invading their space in a permanent manner?

 

 

You are interjecting the "personal" aspect into this debate. For instance, using the term "invading" is personal. It implies a level of ownership. A seat on an airplane is (at best) a rental. :lol:

 

You've yet to answer my question, which would also simplify the matter:

 

What objective manner should airlines adopt to ensure that persons of certain size would be: 1) informed in advance that they were not eligible to fly for XYZ reasons 2) allowed to fly after purchase of a ticket in person and/or 3) fully advised of flight eligibility requirements prior to online or travel agent purposes.

I fly... a lot. I hand carry cameras and sensitive equipment onboard with me, ( entirely because the baggage handling apes and Barney Fifes employed by TSA have caused many dollars of damage to equipment I have checked for loading in the luggage/cargo section. )

 

It would be beneficial to me to have more space in the luggage bins overhead, or to use a spare seat to strap in a larger bag. Instead, I have had to invest in smaller gear and make difficult choices of what to take and what to leave home, that allow me to comply with carry on rules. I don't get extra space... even though I could easily argue and defend that the work I do with my gear is beneficial to many.

 

Rockmom has a good point. ( I know... I know... :eek: )

 

Just as the airlines make very clear the size and weight restrictions on baggage... both carry on and checked... they should codify similar size rules for passengers.

 

I'm 6' 5" and relatively fit. I don't hang over on fellow passengers, but I do have a difficult time fitting into economy class seating. Unless I happen to snag a seat in the emergency row, my knees are jammed into the seat back in front of me. Trips over an hour become uncomfortable. I have the option of paying more for more leg room... or not flying at all. I do not have the reasonable option of demanding first class seating for economy fares. It's my choice. I choose to fly, and most often to save money where I can. I'm hurting no one but myself.

 

I don't care if the person is morbidly obese, a world class body builder, 300 lb NFL lineman, a star Sumo wrestler, whatever... there should be some standardized and published set of guidelines regarding an individual's acceptable dimensions... just like with carry ons and other luggage. Then the option should be made clear that the person could pay more for more space... or fly stand by at the normal fare but on flights not at full capacity allowing for encroaching into more than one seat space.

 

The airlines could be a little more customer friendly in these matters. :thumb:

A naive question from someone who doesn't fly much any more.

 

Are seat sizes different from airline to airline, or even from plane to plane in any given airline?

A naive question from someone who doesn't fly much any more.

 

Are seat sizes different from airline to airline, or even from plane to plane in any given airline?

 

Yes.

 

All the more reason for publishing reasonable guidelines. :thumb:

You are interjecting the "personal" aspect into this debate. For instance, using the term "invading" is personal. It implies a level of ownership. A seat on an airplane is (at best) a rental. :lol:

 

You've yet to answer my question, which would also simplify the matter:

 

What objective manner should airlines adopt to ensure that persons of certain size would be: 1) informed in advance that they were not eligible to fly for XYZ reasons 2) allowed to fly after purchase of a ticket in person and/or 3) fully advised of flight eligibility requirements prior to online or travel agent purposes.

 

I did answer your question when I said there is no objective way to measure. Its a judgment call like a lot of things in life.

 

There is no way to inform a person ahead of time unless that person has flown before and has been flagged in the system. You can warn people by driving to their house with a bullhorn and they'll still show up thinking they can fit into one seat without "invading" their neighbor's space.

 

There is no easy answer. Its a judgment call.

I fly... a lot. I hand carry cameras and sensitive equipment onboard with me, ( entirely because the baggage handling apes and Barney Fifes employed by TSA have caused many dollars of damage to equipment I have checked for loading in the luggage/cargo section. )

 

It would be beneficial to me to have more space in the luggage bins overhead, or to use a spare seat to strap in a larger bag. Instead, I have had to invest in smaller gear and make difficult choices of what to take and what to leave home, that allow me to comply with carry on rules. I don't get extra space... even though I could easily argue and defend that the work I do with my gear is beneficial to many.

 

Rockmom has a good point. ( I know... I know... :eek: )

 

Just as the airlines make very clear the size and weight restrictions on baggage... both carry on and checked... they should codify similar size rules for passengers.

 

I'm 6' 5" and relatively fit. I don't hang over on fellow passengers, but I do have a difficult time fitting into economy class seating. Unless I happen to snag a seat in the emergency row, my knees are jammed into the seat back in front of me. Trips over an hour become uncomfortable. I have the option of paying more for more leg room... or not flying at all. I do not have the reasonable option of demanding first class seating for economy fares. It's my choice. I choose to fly, and most often to save money where I can. I'm hurting no one but myself.

 

I don't care if the person is morbidly obese, a world class body builder, 300 lb NFL lineman, a star Sumo wrestler, whatever... there should be some standardized and published set of guidelines regarding an individual's acceptable dimensions... just like with carry ons and other luggage. Then the option should be made clear that the person could pay more for more space... or fly stand by at the normal fare but on flights not at full capacity allowing for encroaching into more than one seat space.

 

The airlines could be a little more customer friendly in these matters. :thumb:

 

Sounds great in theory.

 

However, its impractical and there would be too many caveats.

This guy bought two tickets on another flight and they were kind enough to put him on an earlier flight. If they say he didn't fit in one seat then I'd agree w/ them. Whatever system they want to use is up to them. He admittedly buys two seats so he has room b/c he's big. Where's the problem? The only way you wouldn't know that you're too "fat" for one seat is if you've never flown before. Being that he's a world traveler and buys two seats I'd say this is on him. When he requested an earlier flight and to go standby he should have asked to make sure there were two seats. To think someone didn't complain is naive. I doubt this happened out of the blue.

Sounds great in theory.

 

However, its impractical and there would be too many caveats.

 

 

Let me ask you this:

 

How long do you think a business is going to stay in business applying arbitrary and subjective policies?

For those who think the airline was in the wrong....What should they have done?

For those who think the airline was in the wrong....What should they have done?

 

My suggestion would be to make the subjective ruling at the gate as to avoid telling someone after the plane is boarded in front of 150 or more passengers that they are too fat to fly. Save your customer the embarrasment out of human decency if nothing else. FWIW I've seen much much much heavier people flying coach than Smith.

I'm 5'11 215 so I'm far from thin.

 

I don't have a lot of sympathy for fat people . I don't expect people to look at me and say "aww, he's 30 pounds overweight. Lets give him a break." I drank the MT Dew and ate the chips and dip to get to the 215 pounds. I'll live with the drawbacks.

 

I understand that people might not like the way I described the fat folk but it was done to make a point. I don't think that others should suffer because of the lack of will power of most fat people. Its really that simple. The majority of fat people that get on an airplane and struggle fit into their space get what they deserve. If you're going to be embarrassed because SWA doesn't let you have a seat a)you have no one to blame but you b)you can lose weight or c)don't fly.

 

You might not like my approach but I doubt you disagree. If you do disagree then IMO you're in the vast minority.

 

One last thing: We all judge people everyday. Everyone of us. So don't cry about people judging you when you were overweight. We're all guilty of judging people.

 

Congratulations on losing your weight.

I understand your view, however not all overweight or obese people are so just because of their eating habits. The majority, yes, but not all.

Let me ask you this:

 

How long do you think a business is going to stay in business applying arbitrary and subjective policies?

 

I don't have the ability to answer vague questions? Give me a particular industry and policy and I'll expound until you're tired of reading.

My suggestion would be to make the subjective ruling at the gate as to avoid telling someone after the plane is boarded in front of 150 or more passengers that they are too fat to fly. Save your customer the embarrasment out of human decency if nothing else. FWIW I've seen much much much heavier people flying coach than Smith.

 

That's how it should have been handled.

I understand your view, however not all overweight or obese people are so just because of their eating habits. The majority, yes, but not all.

 

Irrelevant to the discussion. I can be guilty of generalizing but it doesn't change the argument.

I don't have the ability to answer vague questions? Give me a particular industry and policy and I'll expound until you're tired of reading.

 

 

How do you feel the airline industry will stay in business if their customers feel they cannot be sure they'll actually be able to fly if they purchase a ticket?