I used to not like him, but I've warmed up to him over the years.

LeBron's stats against the Lakers this year - 19.5 PPG, 8.5 RPG, 8 APG

 

Not his usual numbers, but not bad.

 

Most important numbers.....

 

Cavs 0-2 against the Lakers this year.

Clutch is more than hitting a buzzer beating shot. Clutch is hitting a high percentage of shots, free throws, AND not turning the ball over so you don't have to hit a buzzer beater with 5 minutes or less left in the game. Kobe does all three more than anyone else in the league. Go to 82games. com. They have stats for all kinds of things, including who is the most clutch. Kobe Bryant is number 1 on their list in clutch efficiency. You shouldn't hold it against Kobe because he creates separation from the opponent when there is 2 minutes on the clock and not 2 seconds. Kobe obviously doesn't need buzzer beaters to prove he is clutch, but I have seen him hit many 3's, long 2 point jumpers, off balance jumpers, etc, etc when the shot clock reaches 0. I find it funny that people will say he isn't clutch because he does the necessary things with 2 minutes on the clock, like make shots and free throws and not turn the ball over so he doesn't have to shoot a buzzer beater. Making those 3 things happen and your team wins by 5 is still clutch, IMO.

 

Most clutch...

 

1. Kobe

2. LBJ

3. Melo

 

Jason Terry's 3 pointer to put the Mavs up 105-101 was clutch, it just wasn't as clutch as Melo's drive and dunk to bring it to 105-103, and then of course the game winning 3. Had Nowitzki been clutch and hit the jumper in the lane, the Mavs would have been up 107-103 and the game out of reach.........

 

I will agree that LeBron is the best player in the league and that Kobe is number 2, but as I stated before, I would take Kobe over anyone in the history of the NBA. He is my favorite and my personal preference.

 

So those three are more clutch than Paul Pierce? If we go by the 82 minutes website standards Pierce should be the most clutch shouldn't he? Do you remember him scoring 13 points in an overtime period against the Nets in 02 in the Conference Finals? What about in 06 when he scored seven in overtime including the game winner against the Wizards, or maybe the next day when he hit a three to tie with 20 left in the fourth against the sixers and then hit a buzzer beater to win it as time expired? Maybe last season in game 7 of the conference Semis against the cavs when he scored 41 to put the Celtics in the Eastern Conference finals? Or Game 1 when he left in the third and came back a couple of minutes later to outscore Kobe in the quarter and win Game 1.

 

Paul Pierce is the most clutch player in the NBA, I don't care what 82minutes.com, Bryant's clutch is overhyped and he's not going to win a title again because he can't carry a team through a series on his own. See NBA Finals 2008.

Clutch is more than hitting a buzzer beating shot. Clutch is hitting a high percentage of shots, free throws, AND not turning the ball over so you don't have to hit a buzzer beater with 5 minutes or less left in the game. Kobe does all three more than anyone else in the league. Go to 82games. com. They have stats for all kinds of things, including who is the most clutch. Kobe Bryant is number 1 on their list in clutch efficiency. You shouldn't hold it against Kobe because he creates separation from the opponent when there is 2 minutes on the clock and not 2 seconds. Kobe obviously doesn't need buzzer beaters to prove he is clutch, but I have seen him hit many 3's, long 2 point jumpers, off balance jumpers, etc, etc when the shot clock reaches 0. I find it funny that people will say he isn't clutch because he does the necessary things with 2 minutes on the clock, like make shots and free throws and not turn the ball over so he doesn't have to shoot a buzzer beater. Making those 3 things happen and your team wins by 5 is still clutch, IMO.

Most clutch...

 

1. Kobe

2. LBJ

3. Melo

 

Jason Terry's 3 pointer to put the Mavs up 105-101 was clutch, it just wasn't as clutch as Melo's drive and dunk to bring it to 105-103, and then of course the game winning 3. Had Nowitzki been clutch and hit the jumper in the lane, the Mavs would have been up 107-103 and the game out of reach.........

 

I will agree that LeBron is the best player in the league and that Kobe is number 2, but as I stated before, I would take Kobe over anyone in the history of the NBA. He is my favorite and my personal preference.

 

My problem with the first bolded part is that is good enough to count for Kobe, but it doesn't count for LeBron and others. If LeBron doesn't take and make a game winner he isn't clutch. But, he can score 18 in the 4th quarter, and kick out to Delonte West for the game winner and it's not good enough. If you are going to call those kind of things clutch for Kobe, then they have to count for LeBron. I know you haven't done this, but others on here have. By some people's standard on here you cannot call Kobe clutch.

 

Ha ha ha. Carmelo? Are you kidding me? Just because of one shot? Billups and Pierce and DWade have had plenty more moments than him. As for 82 games.com we've had this discussion and one of the links on there calls out KB for not being as clutch as people think, and puts James at 1.

 

Most important numbers.....

 

Cavs 0-2 against the Lakers this year.

 

Very true, I think the Cavs are playing better than the Lakers now.

 

I think LBJ is a better overall player than Kobe, but LBJ never really does anything when the Lakers play the Cavs, does he? Or am I mistaken...

 

False, this year the Cavs are 0-2 but over the last few years LeBron has out-played Kobe head to head. Actually, in the home loss for the Cavs, Kobe's finger was hurt and neither played well. But,it was Big Z's first game back after an injury, and D West and Ben Wallace were out for the Cavs, Bynum was out for the Lakers I believe. Neither team was exactly at full strength, so obviously we really don't know how the series will play out.

 

I will agree that LeBron is the best player in the league and that Kobe is number 2, but as I stated before, I would take Kobe over anyone in the history of the NBA. He is my favorite and my personal preference.

 

This told me all I needed to know :isurrender:

Kobe and Tim Duncan are my two favorite players in the NBA. I love to watch Kobe play because he plays on both sides of the ball, so does Duncan. Kobe is arrogant but so was Jordan and so was Bird. I like the confidence that when they step on the floor they feel they have already won and that they are the best player,imo.

I have been a Lebron hater in the past but now that he has played with Kobe on the USA team and he now sees that he has to play defense to win big games ,I am starting to enjoy him also. I am just a fan of the game and enjoy good basketball and watching players who play the game on both ends. Thats the biggest reason I never could stand Tracy McGrady because of he defense effort. I did get a pair if McGrady's Shoes one time, thats about all I ever liked about him.

Okay, call me confused.

 

Kobe and LeBron play two different positions and Kobe in his prime would never match up against LeBron because LeBron is too physically imposing.

 

However, Kobe in his prime was unstoppable. I don't care who you put on him, he was unstoppable. He could blow by you for the dunk or layup or he could shoot jumpers in your eye all night. Now because of older age and less explosion he has to rely more on his jumper for points and to create opportunities to penetrate because he just can't blow by and up and over defenders like he used to.

 

Now some people say he is better today, but I'll take the Kobe that scored 81 points any day of the week.

 

If some people say that this version of Kobe is the best, then I am sorry, I have to fully re-open the discussion because if this Kobe is better than the 81 point Kobe then he has to be better than LBJ.

 

Paul Pierce is the most clutch player in the NBA, I don't care what 82minutes.com, Bryant's clutch is overhyped and he's not going to win a title again because he can't carry a team through a series on his own. See NBA Finals 2008.

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

Are you saying Pierce carried the Celtics on his own?

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

Are you saying Pierce carried the Celtics on his own?

 

I hope he isn't. The Celtics had to add KG and Ray Allen just so Doc Rivers could hold his job as the coach.

Okay, call me confused.

 

Kobe and LeBron play two different positions and Kobe in his prime would never match up against LeBron because LeBron is too physically imposing.

 

However, Kobe in his prime was unstoppable. I don't care who you put on him, he was unstoppable. He could blow by you for the dunk or layup or he could shoot jumpers in your eye all night. Now because of older age and less explosion he has to rely more on his jumper for points and to create opportunities to penetrate because he just can't blow by and up and over defenders like he used to.

 

Now some people say he is better today, but I'll take the Kobe that scored 81 points any day of the week.

 

If some people say that this version of Kobe is the best, then I am sorry, I have to fully re-open the discussion because if this Kobe is better than the 81 point Kobe then he has to be better than LBJ.

 

I will take MJ or Pippen guarding any Kobe you want to put out there, for one series. I think he would score, but I don't think you would say he was unstoppable.

 

The 81-point Kobe was the worst Kobe (not including the years before he was really good), to me. He was selfish, was a poor teammate, and shot every time. He had like 1 assist that game. He proved something that season, he could score. He was just a ball hog then. That Kobe would never be considered one of the top 5-10 players of all-time.

 

I don't really know why I'm the one defending Kobe, but this Kobe is much better from a basketball standpoint, and not a fan of Kobe standpoint. This Kobe plays more in the team concept, and creates good shots for the most part. The 36 ppg, 81-point Kobe didn't do that. That season was all about Kobe. I know that your are a KB fan and that was probably fun to watch, but he's a better player now.

Oh, and LBJ being able to out muscle/speed Kobe has nothing to do with what postion they play. LeBron would be a great two (probably better), a great PG, and possibly a great 4.

 

LeBron out athletes Kobe because he is LeBron and out athletes everyone reguardless of position.

I will take MJ or Pippen guarding any Kobe you want to put out there, for one series. I think he would score, but I don't think you would say he was unstoppable.

 

The 81-point Kobe was the worst Kobe (not including the years before he was really good), to me. He was selfish, was a poor teammate, and shot every time. He had like 1 assist that game. He proved something that season, he could score. He was just a ball hog then. That Kobe would never be considered one of the top 5-10 players of all-time.

 

I don't really know why I'm the one defending Kobe, but this Kobe is much better from a basketball standpoint, and not a fan of Kobe standpoint. This Kobe plays more in the team concept, and creates good shots for the most part. The 36 ppg, 81-point Kobe didn't do that. That season was all about Kobe. I know that your are a KB fan and that was probably fun to watch, but he's a better player now.

 

 

 

Okay, it's becoming clearer to me now.

 

The 81 point Kobe had to score because his team was garbage. You can call it from a basketball standpoint all you want, and that's fine, but he was able to "become more of a team player" when Gasol arrived. This Laker team is better than that team...period. He doesn't have to score 81 like he used to on orders from his coach back then because he had no help at all. Odom has and always will be a secondary player, but he's no Pau Gasol. It's easy to call him a team player when everyone around him has gotten better as well. It's a different time and just like I'd take the 89 Jordan on the 96 team, I'd take the 81 point scoring Kobe on this 2008-9 team.

 

Remember, at the time Phil was telling Kobe to shoot all of the time and Kobe obliged. Sounds like he was being the team player his coach wanted him to be.

Oh, and LBJ being able to out muscle/speed Kobe has nothing to do with what postion they play. LeBron would be a great two (probably better), a great PG, and possibly a great 4.

 

LeBron out athletes Kobe because he is LeBron and out athletes everyone reguardless of position.

 

Yeah, but not even Bron Bron can guard the 81 point Kobe. Him, Jordan, Joe Dumars, Michael Cooper, I don't care who you get, you aren't stopping the 81 point Kobe.

Okay, it's becoming clearer to me now.

 

The 81 point Kobe had to score because his team was garbage. You can call it from a basketball standpoint all you want, and that's fine, but he was able to "become more of a team player" when Gasol arrived. This Laker team is better than that team...period. He doesn't have to score 81 like he used to on orders from his coach back then because he had no help at all. Odom has and always will be a secondary player, but he's no Pau Gasol. It's easy to call him a team player when everyone around him has gotten better as well. It's a different time and just like I'd take the 89 Jordan on the 96 team, I'd take the 81 point scoring Kobe on this team.

 

Remember, at the time Phil was telling Kobe to shoot all of the time and Kobe obliged. Sounds like he was being the team player his coach wanted him to be.

 

The 81 points was a one time thing so it's not like it was an average.

 

That Kobe would have the Lakers struggling for the 6 seed in the West and they'd already be home. How many titles did Allen Iverson win? Kobe is better, but so is the NBA right now. The 89 Jordan on the 96 team probably gets beat by the Sonics if they made it that far and no way would they have won 72 games. There is alot more to basketball than scoring. That's why I would take this Kobe over any other Kobe, and one of the reasons I'd take LeBron over Kobe.

Yeah, but not even Bron Bron can guard the 81 point Kobe. Him, Jordan, Joe Dumars, Michael Cooper, I don't care who you get, you aren't stopping the 81 point Kobe.

 

That is so ridiculous. Are you saying that Kobe was at one point in time the best player to ever play the game and that no one in the history of the world could stop his godlike dominance at scoring baskets? That is crazy.

 

1. Number 1- that was against the Raptors. Not the Spurs, Pistons or any other respectable team. The Raptors. Not in the playoffs...in a regular season game. 1 time.

2. Did the Lakers win the title that season? If Kobe was so unstoppable they must have not have lost a game.

 

Let's be real for a second. That team was horrible, Kobe did need to score alot. If Jordan was told to only score, and didn't have to worry about winning because his team was so weak, he would have matched 81 points in his prime and probably averaged around 40 or more.