Sounds to me that you don't like the fact that Kobe is successful.

 

I'd attribute a good deal of that success to Shaquille O'Neal and Andrew Bynum being hurt last season down the stretch. Bynum stays healthy and LeBron or Chris Paul wins the MVP IMO.

It wasn't just about points with Gasol and Odom. They were all around horrible and extremely soft in the finals last year. LeBron can't play defense or rebound for them. I would also make the argument that Kobe is every bit the playmaker LeBron is, the difference is that LeBron's boys actually make their wide open shots. I guarantee that in the last 6 years, no player has more blown assists than Kobe Bryant because of his teammate's inability to make wide open shots, catch the ball, etc.

 

Kobe is a spectacular athlete. Is he athletic as LeBron, nope, but for the things that he is able to do takes a level of athleticism that only 1 other person in the NBA has and his name is LeBron.

 

I could see Kobe playing past 36, but if he does, it will be in a role he knows is suited for him. Next year, what we are about to witness from LeBron James will erase anyone's incorrect doubts of what LeBron is going to do to the NBA for the remainder of his career. LeBron officially enters his athletic AND basketball prime next year. Need I say more........

 

No, no no no no no no no. 2nd most athletic in the NBA? DWade is 6-4 and crams dunks on people. What about Dwight Howard, Andre Igoudola, Nate Robinson, Josh Smith, Rondo, D Rose, JR Smith, Rudy Fernandez, Amare? Kobe is a great athlete, but his talent allows him to do things not his athleticism. He is a good but not great athlete for the NBA. He doesn't compare to the elite athletic wise, but his is way, way way above average in that department. But don't say that he can do things athleticially that only LeBron can do. DWade is the most acrobatic player in the league as far as using jumping to create shots that aren't just dunks.

 

And yes, LeBron can rebound and defend for them. They would have played better because he would have made their lives easier. You have to constantly help on LeBron, the help defense on Kobe is when he has the ball and is on prowl for a shot. Odom and Gasol are weak but LeBron would have decreased the beating Garnett, Perkins and Powe gave them in the finals. I don't think that can be debated.

 

Kobe is a great player that will, IMO, finish as a top 10 player all time. I don't think he passes MJ, Magic, Oscar, Wilt, Russell or Kareem, but he can pass Bird and others. I think Shaq also has to be above Kobe.

 

But if you guys think he is great what does it matter what I think. No one can convince me LeBron isn't the best player in the league, and it wouldn't worry about it if people said he wasn't. I give my reasons why I think LeBron is better but I won't change your mind and you won't change mine.

 

As for blown assist everyone has them. Kobe's best passing asset is passing out of a jump shot once he is in the air, which can lead to some great plays, but it is probably one of the toughest passes to be ready for and to score off of. Every bit the playmaker? Are you kidding me? Kobe plays on the most complete team in the league, but still doesn't have the assist of LBJ or Dwade. Those guys can run the point better than most PG's, and set their less talented teammates up to succeed. Say what you want, Lakers roster is 1000 times better than the Cavs in personel. They are built better possibly, as the players they have suit LeBron's game. Cavs do have Mo Williams something the Lakers don't but I will take Odom, Gasol, Bynum, Ariza over anyone else on the Cavs roster.

Yeah, I bet Phil really loves Kobe now.....lots of people have and keep jobs with people they don't like, appearances don't always tell the whole story.

 

Phil doesn't have to coach in LA, no one is making coach there and no one has made him coach there since he came back. If he can't stand Kobe, why would he even bother coaching? Your statement makes no sense to me. He has 9 rings, he doesn't have to coach.

Can't stand the guy, especially after the way the whole Shaq/Kobe/Phil Jackson love triangle played out. He just seems like a selfish person on the floor, I know he averages 5 dimes a game, but he doesn't seem like he trusts his team mates enough to make him a successful player ala Jordan. I know I'll get a lot of heat on here for saying this; but his selfish personality seems to be the limiting factor in him being able to win a title without Shaq, I know he is 10 times the player now than he was with Shaq, but I don't think he'll ever win a title without Daddy Diesel.

 

I'm not saying he isn't great-by all means he is a top 5 player all-time-but I think some overrate him when they say he is money in the clutch, I would take Paul Pierce, LeBron and Chauncey Billups to take a shot with 5 seconds left in Game 7 of the finals over Kobe every day of the year.

 

 

Just make sure you don't disappear if the Lakers win it all this year. I'll have a big plate of crow for you to eat.

 

As far as clutch goes, I'll refer you to this link

 

http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

I'd attribute a good deal of that success to Shaquille O'Neal and Andrew Bynum being hurt last season down the stretch. Bynum stays healthy and LeBron or Chris Paul wins the MVP IMO.

 

Bynum got hurt and he added a better player in Pau Gasol. I don't see how losing Bynum is the reason Kobe won the MVP when they added a much better player in Pau Gasol.

No, no no no no no no no. 2nd most athletic in the NBA? DWade is 6-4 and crams dunks on people. What about Dwight Howard, Andre Igoudola, Nate Robinson, Josh Smith, Rondo, D Rose, JR Smith, Rudy Fernandez, Amare? Kobe is a great athlete, but his talent allows him to do things not his athleticism. He is a good but not great athlete for the NBA. He doesn't compare to the elite athletic wise, but his is way, way way above average in that department. But don't say that he can do things athleticially that only LeBron can do. DWade is the most acrobatic player in the league as far as using jumping to create shots that aren't just dunks.

 

And yes, LeBron can rebound and defend for them. They would have played better because he would have made their lives easier. You have to constantly help on LeBron, the help defense on Kobe is when he has the ball and is on prowl for a shot. Odom and Gasol are weak but LeBron would have decreased the beating Garnett, Perkins and Powe gave them in the finals. I don't think that can be debated.

 

Kobe is a great player that will, IMO, finish as a top 10 player all time. I don't think he passes MJ, Magic, Oscar, Wilt, Russell or Kareem, but he can pass Bird and others. I think Shaq also has to be above Kobe.

 

But if you guys think he is great what does it matter what I think. No one can convince me LeBron isn't the best player in the league, and it wouldn't worry about it if people said he wasn't. I give my reasons why I think LeBron is better but I won't change your mind and you won't change mine.

 

As for blown assist everyone has them. Kobe's best passing asset is passing out of a jump shot once he is in the air, which can lead to some great plays, but it is probably one of the toughest passes to be ready for and to score off of. Every bit the playmaker? Are you kidding me? Kobe plays on the most complete team in the league, but still doesn't have the assist of LBJ or Dwade. Those guys can run the point better than most PG's, and set their less talented teammates up to succeed. Say what you want, Lakers roster is 1000 times better than the Cavs in personel. They are built better possibly, as the players they have suit LeBron's game. Cavs do have Mo Williams something the Lakers don't but I will take Odom, Gasol, Bynum, Ariza over anyone else on the Cavs roster.

 

I am taking into account the entire body of work that Kobe has done. When you look at his entire career, you could make the argument that he is the 2nd best athlete. Everything those guys do, he has done before. I also take into account injuries. In my grading of how good of an athlete you are durability comes into play. Half of your list is injury prone. I'll agree with you in that there are other guys besides LeBron that are probably more athletic than Kobe, but he is and has been a much better athlete than I think you are giving him credit for. It takes a lot more than just talent to score on defenders such as Artest, Pierce, LeBron, Battier, etc the way he does.

 

LeBron is a way better rebounder than Kobe, he is 2 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier. To expect Kobe to rebound for Odom and Gasol is unrealistic. This is very debatable. The Cavs got beat by the Celtics last year. They would have gotten beat with Odom and Gasol just like the Lakers did. Varejao and Ilgauskas aren't as sophisticated offensively as Odom and Gasol, but both are capable rebounders and you could argue that Varejao brings more to the table defensively than Odom and Gasol and he doesn't play soft like Odom and Gasol tend to do in stretches. Last year, I think no team would beat the Celtics in a 7 game series. They beat Kobe and LeBron. End of discussion.

 

Yes, he is every bit the playmaker LeBron is, IMO. He is just more selfish than LeBron. LeBron will make a pass when Kobe will take the shot, but if both lead to 2 or 3 points then a play is being made, right?

 

Kobe will never have the assist totals of Wade or LBJ partly because he is more selfish than both of them. He also has teammates like Odom and Ariza who can create their own shot off of the dribble which takes away chances at assists. He also has Gasol and Bynum who dribble the ball when they receive a pass to the post before they make their low post move, which takes away assists also. Kobe is the guy you pass it out to on the wing for the jumper. He doesn't have a guy like Mo Williams or Daquan Cook waiting for the pass out to the wing to knock down the 3 at a high percentage. Those are just some of the reasons his assist totals aren't high, but it is also due to his selfishness and I don't think his selfishness should take away from his greatness.

 

LeBron is probably the best individual player in the NBA right now and quite honestly, I think next year he will advance his game even further, but I would take Kobe any day over any player ever in the history of the NBA. I have always said that and I always will. He truly is my favorite player, he'll probably end up as one of the top 10 players of all time and despite his "character flaws", his selfishness and personality issues, I would gladly take what he brings to the table any day.

I don'l like him because he has daggered all of my teams in the heart at one point or another... Not because of his ability because he is a great player.

I don'l like him because he has daggered all of my teams in the heart at one point or another... Not because of his ability because he is a great player.

 

 

:lol::clap:

 

That is the exact same reason why I hated Larry Bird and Michael Jordan.

I can't stand him. Never have, never will.

I am taking into account the entire body of work that Kobe has done. When you look at his entire career, you could make the argument that he is the 2nd best athlete. Everything those guys do, he has done before. I also take into account injuries. In my grading of how good of an athlete you are durability comes into play. Half of your list is injury prone. I'll agree with you in that there are other guys besides LeBron that are probably more athletic than Kobe, but he is and has been a much better athlete than I think you are giving him credit for. It takes a lot more than just talent to score on defenders such as Artest, Pierce, LeBron, Battier, etc the way he does.

 

LeBron is a way better rebounder than Kobe, he is 2 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier. To expect Kobe to rebound for Odom and Gasol is unrealistic. This is very debatable. The Cavs got beat by the Celtics last year. They would have gotten beat with Odom and Gasol just like the Lakers did. Varejao and Ilgauskas aren't as sophisticated offensively as Odom and Gasol, but both are capable rebounders and you could argue that Varejao brings more to the table defensively than Odom and Gasol and he doesn't play soft like Odom and Gasol tend to do in stretches. Last year, I think no team would beat the Celtics in a 7 game series. They beat Kobe and LeBron. End of discussion.

 

Yes, he is every bit the playmaker LeBron is, IMO. He is just more selfish than LeBron. LeBron will make a pass when Kobe will take the shot, but if both lead to 2 or 3 points then a play is being made, right?

 

Kobe will never have the assist totals of Wade or LBJ partly because he is more selfish than both of them. He also has teammates like Odom and Ariza who can create their own shot off of the dribble which takes away chances at assists. He also has Gasol and Bynum who dribble the ball when they receive a pass to the post before they make their low post move, which takes away assists also. Kobe is the guy you pass it out to on the wing for the jumper. He doesn't have a guy like Mo Williams or Daquan Cook waiting for the pass out to the wing to knock down the 3 at a high percentage. Those are just some of the reasons his assist totals aren't high, but it is also due to his selfishness and I don't think his selfishness should take away from his greatness.

 

LeBron is probably the best individual player in the NBA right now and quite honestly, I think next year he will advance his game even further, but I would take Kobe any day over any player ever in the history of the NBA. I have always said that and I always will. He truly is my favorite player, he'll probably end up as one of the top 10 players of all time and despite his "character flaws", his selfishness and personality issues, I would gladly take what he brings to the table any day.

 

You cannot compare the Lakers and Cavs rosters. LBJ would make the difference in them beating the Celts, as the Cavs almost did last season. You act like the Lakers have no shooters. Ariza can play, Fisher and Farmar can make shots. You made my point by saying LeBron is a better rebounder, that would ease the load off everyone. Odom and Gasol would not get the beating they took from the Celtics, because those players would have to constantly be ready to help on LeBron. Making plays for others is a huge part of being a playmaker. You cannot just score and be a playmaker. You can just score and be an all-time great, but to be a true playmaker you have to be able to create offense for everyone else. Kobe cannot do that 82 games a year 48 minutes a game, and really as you've pointed out most likely doesn't want to.

 

Everyone acts like the Cavs are just loaded with talent. They are a very good team, but they have been collected to suit James' game.

 

As for the athleticism, he has never been as athletic as the guys mentioned. He is still very athletic, but many of those players games, like Josh Smith and Amare when he was younger are stictly based on being supreme athletes. Kobe doesn't have the athleticsm to only be a jump out over you type of player, and never has.

Just make sure you don't disappear if the Lakers win it all this year. I'll have a big plate of crow for you to eat.

 

As far as clutch goes, I'll refer you to this link

 

http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

 

I would say most on here think that the Lakers should be the team that wins the title. They have alot of talent and depth. If the Cavs win, and LeBron dominates Kobe, can Spikes serve you a plate of crow?

Love Kobe...

Kobe is one of the toughest, most competitive guys in the league... Used to hate him, now he's one of my favorite players. He's just an overall tough guy, and I'm a huge fan of tough guys...

I think LBJ is a better overall player than Kobe, but LBJ never really does anything when the Lakers play the Cavs, does he? Or am I mistaken...

You cannot compare the Lakers and Cavs rosters. LBJ would make the difference in them beating the Celts, as the Cavs almost did last season. You act like the Lakers have no shooters. Ariza can play, Fisher and Farmar can make shots. You made my point by saying LeBron is a better rebounder, that would ease the load off everyone. Odom and Gasol would not get the beating they took from the Celtics, because those players would have to constantly be ready to help on LeBron. Making plays for others is a huge part of being a playmaker. You cannot just score and be a playmaker. You can just score and be an all-time great, but to be a true playmaker you have to be able to create offense for everyone else. Kobe cannot do that 82 games a year 48 minutes a game, and really as you've pointed out most likely doesn't want to.

 

Everyone acts like the Cavs are just loaded with talent. They are a very good team, but they have been collected to suit James' game.

 

As for the athleticism, he has never been as athletic as the guys mentioned. He is still very athletic, but many of those players games, like Josh Smith and Amare when he was younger are stictly based on being supreme athletes. Kobe doesn't have the athleticsm to only be a jump out over you type of player, and never has.

 

Mo Williams is a better player than any of L.A.'s other guards... Pau Gasol is a stud, but the Lakers overall talent is overestimated IMO...