http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=46949

 

Do you think the Bush administration would have worked so hard if it were Hollywood targeted instead of LA?

 

And you can reconcile that position and your position on torture, how?

 

Have I stated a position on this issue?

That has nothing to do with this thread. Religion and politics are separate in our great country. None of those things should come into play when considering this.

 

And if you think a person's individual conscience, however formed by religion or lack thereof, shouldn't be able to figure into the decisions they make, be they teacher, lawyer, doctor, priest or president, then we should just pack this whole thing in and pick someone to be emperor because, after all, what is religious freedom worth if you can't exercise it?

^What he said. :thumb:

I haven't read through the entire thread, nor do I want to. My thoughts on torture are "we can't handle the truth". It is an evil, but a necessary evil. If there is a very good reason to think that a terrorist is holding life saving information then the acceptable level is, "until we get the answers".

 

My only problem with torture is that it can lead to false information.

Have I stated a position on this issue?

 

Have you?

After all what's a few thoudand lives when we can claim moral superiority.:ohbrother:

 

I know I'll sleep better at night, well as long as I'm not one of the few thousand lives we're talking about.:ohbrother:

From the classes I have had in college and what I have read myself, it seems that we are fighting an animal unlike anything this world has seen. It isn't like the Revolutionary, Spanish-American, World War 1, World War 2, The Vietnam War, The Korean War, The Persian Gulf War or even The Cold War. Because in those wars, we knew who we were fighting, or rather we knew where they were. But in this new War on Terror, we know who the enemy is: it's Al-Qaeda and all other terrorist organizations throughout the world. But where are they? We can assume that the majority of Al-Qaeda's leaders are in the Middle East somewhere, but there in lies the problem, the Middle-East is quite expansive and if we occupy all of the Middle-East, we still don't have a guarantee of finding Osama Bin Laden or leaders of other terrorist organizations.

 

Another problem is that these "soldiers"-for lack of a better word-aren't particularly afraid to die. Case in point, they flew airplanes into buildings, killing themselves and they frequently strap dynamite to their bodies and detonate them in public places. So how can we guarantee that these techniques actually work? Have they ever worked in gaining information that stopped an impending terrorist attack? Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way, but it doesn't seem to be an effective method of gaining information when these people aren't afraid to die. That's just me.

 

I know that his show is to be taken very lightly and it is meant to satirize regular news programs, but Jon Stewart had on a member of the Foundation of Democracies lobbying group on the other evening; Cliff May's firm is a think tank that advocates the use of torture against prisoners of war. The interview was very enlightening, entertaining and interesting. Here are the links to the three part interview if anyone is interested:

 

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=226121&title=cliff-may-unedited-interview

 

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=226122&title=cliff-may-unedited-interview

 

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=226123&title=cliff-may-unedited-interview

From the classes I have had in college and what I have read myself, it seems that we are fighting an animal unlike anything this world has seen. It isn't like the Revolutionary, Spanish-American, World War 1, World War 2, The Vietnam War, The Korean War, The Persian Gulf War or even The Cold War. Because in those wars, we knew who we were fighting, or rather we knew where they were. But in this new War on Terror, we know who the enemy is: it's Al-Qaeda and all other terrorist organizations throughout the world. But where are they? We can assume that the majority of Al-Qaeda's leaders are in the Middle East somewhere, but there in lies the problem, the Middle-East is quite expansive and if we occupy all of the Middle-East, we still don't have a guarantee of finding Osama Bin Laden or leaders of other terrorist organizations.

 

Another problem is that these "soldiers"-for lack of a better word-aren't particularly afraid to die. Case in point, they flew airplanes into buildings, killing themselves and they frequently strap dynamite to their bodies and detonate them in public places. So how can we guarantee that these techniques actually work? Have they ever worked in gaining information that stopped an impending terrorist attack? Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way, but it doesn't seem to be an effective method of gaining information when these people aren't afraid to die. That's just me.

 

I know that his show is to be taken very lightly and it is meant to satirize regular news programs, but Jon Stewart had on a member of the Foundation of Democracies lobbying group on the other evening; Cliff May's firm is a think tank that advocates the use of torture against prisoners of war. The interview was very enlightening, entertaining and interesting. Here are the links to the three part interview if anyone is interested:

 

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=226121&title=cliff-may-unedited-interview

 

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=226122&title=cliff-may-unedited-interview

 

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=226123&title=cliff-may-unedited-interview

 

 

The idea of torture is not to kill someone. Especially these yahoo's as they would see it as a righteous death. The idea is to make it so that they want to die, to make it stop. In some cases, the way these guys are programmed, simply not killing them can be tortureous.

I believe that would be called a conundrum....One stance can't be supported by the other. Just like some people on here quote scripture then reference hating those that disagree with them.

Torture is wrong plain and simple whoever does it; it doesn't guarantee accurate information, makes us look bad and aids terrorist organizations in thier recruiting efforts.

I suppose those of you who advocate it, if you were ever held prisoner you would think it would be perfectly reasonable for our enemy to torture you if it "would prevent an attack on thier nation"?

 

You are so quick to call out Christians on any issue. I know I tend to quote scripture on a lot of issues. But I have never said I hate anyone, I don’t think.

I do not advocate torture by any individuals. The Bible is clear that the Lord will avenge those who inflict suffering.

But the Bible is also clear that the government is charged to protect society.

Romans 13: 1-5

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.

The Bible neither condemns nor condones the use of torture by governments. But it is clear that they will be judged for not effectively caring for its people.

Where and when would you want me to stop in saving your life or the lives of your family? Simple question! How you answer will define your idea of where torture begins, ends, and its' definition. :idunno:

Too late.

You are so quick to call out Christians on any issue. I know I tend to quote scripture on a lot of issues. But I have never said I hate anyone, I don’t think.

I do not advocate torture by any individuals. The Bible is clear that the Lord will avenge those who inflict suffering.

But the Bible is also clear that the government is charged to protect society.

Romans 13: 1-5

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.

The Bible neither condemns nor condones the use of torture by governments. But it is clear that they will be judged for not effectively caring for its people.

 

I don't call out Christians, I am one. If I post or ask them to be consistent with their use of scripture and following all of the teaching of Christ is a different story. I didn't say you referenced hating anyone but another poster who very often quotes scripture referenced hatred between people whom they disagree with politically.

 

John 13:34 A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

If it saves American lives. Period.