You guys act as if only terrorists use these techniques. You're are fooling yourselves, if you don't think Russian intelligence, German intelligence, Chinese intelligence, British intelligence, Israeli intelligence, etc, etc don't use these same techniques.

 

But of course the U.S. is always the bad guy.

You guys act as if only terrorists use these techniques. You're are fooling yourselves, if you don't think Russian intelligence, German intelligence, Chinese intelligence, British intelligence, Israeli intelligence, etc, etc don't use these same techniques.

 

But of course the U.S. is always the bad guy.

 

 

What part of "others do it" makes it right? No one is saying the US is always the bad guy. But to use our influence in the world to denounce such actions by others, yet deem it "necessary" when we do it is hypocritcal, lacking in integrity and just plain wrong.

You guys act as if only terrorists use these techniques. You're are fooling yourselves, if you don't think Russian intelligence, German intelligence, Chinese intelligence, British intelligence, Israeli intelligence, etc, etc don't use these same techniques.

 

But of course the U.S. is always the bad guy.

 

I don't think the US is the bad guy at all, when we act like the US has in the past. We can not be lured into a urinating contest with the skunks around us or we will all smell. (Sorry, it's the best illustration I could come up with.)

 

Historically, our country has always been at its best when we show the world the right way to defend and promote democracy. :thumb:

You know, with the whole call for the closing of Gitmo subject, where do we intend to relocate the detainees? This brings me to another point.

 

If they (the new admin.) intends to relocate the detainees to somewhere here on the main land, don't these detainees have to be US citizens?

 

I mean if they are going to go under the same justice system that I would if I committed a crime, your telling me they are going to get the same treatment? Thats rediculous...

You know, with the whole call for the closing of Gitmo subject, where do we intend to relocate the detainees? This brings me to another point.

 

If they (the new admin.) intends to relocate the detainees to somewhere here on the main land, don't these detainees have to be US citizens?

 

I mean if they are going to go under the same justice system that I would if I committed a crime, your telling me they are going to get the same treatment? Thats rediculous...

 

 

We have illegal aliens in our prisons. I believe that if anyone is convicted of a crime by the US, they are imprisioned in the US prison system. We have other terrorists who have been convicted in our prisons as well.

Hypothetically...If your children were attending a very large school in another country and there was very good intelligence that a group was going to bomb and kill as many students that they can at that campus. Your local police have one of the masterminds of the bombing locked in jail. Time is running out...The bombing is scheduled to start in hours. He's answering questions but coming short of giving up any information that may foil the attack. The interrogator in charge thinks with a little persuasion (torture outside the limits of the Geneva Convention) he can get the information he needs to stop the bombing. He turns to you and asks if he should use these techniques. It's up to you now.

 

Do you?

 

1. Advise the interrogator to continue within the rules in hopes he will give the information needed in the nick of time.

 

2. Give the OK to stretch the rules hoping that several lives (including your children) will be saved.

 

 

Skinpig, I'm sorry...I didn't see this until you brought this to my attention.

 

The situation you describe would hit me very personally, I admit. But, I know you won't believe this, I have to hope I would opt for number 1. I value the integrity and the principles of the United States. It would be extremely difficult for me to do. Probably more than you can possibly suspect.

 

Realistically, it would never be my choice, though. The choice of which tactic to use would be made by the US government.

Skinpig, I'm sorry...I didn't see this until you brought this to my attention.

 

The situation you describe would hit me very personally, I admit. But, I know you won't believe this, I have to hope I would opt for number 1. I value the integrity and the principles of the United States. It would be extremely difficult for me to do. Probably more than you can possibly suspect.

 

Realistically, it would never be my choice, though. The choice of which tactic to use would be made by the US government.

 

Yeah, I know. The whole thing was hypothetical. The students/children scenario, although very different, could also compare to our government and it's citizens. The thing is, which tactic to use IS someones decision.

 

I guess we're too far apart on this subject. I wouldn't hesitate to order tactics outside the Geneva Convention to be used on a known killer in order to save a neighbor.

You guys act as if only terrorists use these techniques. You're are fooling yourselves, if you don't think Russian intelligence, German intelligence, Chinese intelligence, British intelligence, Israeli intelligence, etc, etc don't use these same techniques.

 

But of course the U.S. is always the bad guy.

 

1. Do you have evidence of other democratic countries violating international law?
   
2. Why should we model our country after states like Russia and China? Should we also mirror their system of government?
   

Wasn't refering to code reds. Was refering to the things in the initial post. Protecting a nation is not always a nice pretty little package, sometimes it is ugly, but these things are necessary. And by eliminating them he is weakening our nation.

 

I agree completely.

Afraid we've beat another horse to death ! Ever body wants a link,or proof ! To quote Earl Pitts, come on people, wake up America.

Our Government will do , or have done for them, what ever is necessary to get any information needed, and if they get caught they claim no knowledge, or either unauthorized and sacrifice somebody to make you happy. If one choses to not believe this , that's fine with me.

 

And no I don't have a link or proof, I don't need it !

delete

Afraid we've beat another horse to death ! Ever body wants a link,or proof ! To quote Earl Pitts, come on people, wake up America.

Our Government will do , or have done for them, what ever is necessary to get any information needed, and if they get caught they claim no knowledge, or either unauthorized and sacrifice somebody to make you happy. If one choses to not believe this , that's fine with me.

 

And no I don't have a link or proof, I don't need it !

You are admitting that you have no proof or reason for your position, yet you still stand by it?

 

If I torture my neighbor, it is wrong.

 

If I torture my neighbor in the name of anti-terrorism, is it right?

You are admitting that you have no proof or reason for your position, yet you still stand by it?

 

If I torture my neighbor, it is wrong.

 

If I torture my neighbor in the name of anti-terrorism, is it right?

 

Do you really think there would be a link or proof you could authenticate ?

I never said I didn't have a reason. I will say I do not have a reason to share with you. I do still stand by my position. If you have reason to believe your neighbor is involved in or has knowledge of terrorist activity you should call the Office of Public affairs in Langley Va. and ask for the National Clandestine Service (NCS).They do not have a public number but OPA will put you in touch with them. NCS is the branch of the CIA that deals with terrorists. They will question your neighbor for you. As to right or wrong, I will not judge their methods .:deadhorse:

Edited February 23, 200917 yr by HOOKSHOT

Yeah, I know. The whole thing was hypothetical. The students/children scenario, although very different, could also compare to our government and it's citizens. The thing is, which tactic to use IS someones decision.

 

I guess we're too far apart on this subject. I wouldn't hesitate to order tactics outside the Geneva Convention to be used on a known killer in order to save a neighbor.

 

The problem is that when others do this, we call it torture and denounce them for it.

 

It certainly IS torture...both ways.