February 21, 200917 yr I know what the enemy will do. I've had the opportunity to speak to some who have heard and seen first hand. However, I vehemently disagree with compromising or even pushing the limits of the Geneva Convention. IMO, it makes us no better than the enemy, or even worse, as we have sacraficed the integrity of what I consider one of America's greatest strengths-Justice. I also don't see where all CIA operations are ceased. The secret prisons are ordered closed. Hypothetically...If your children were attending a very large school in another country and there was very good intelligence that a group was going to bomb and kill as many students that they can at that campus. Your local police have one of the masterminds of the bombing locked in jail. Time is running out...The bombing is scheduled to start in hours. He's answering questions but coming short of giving up any information that may foil the attack. The interrogator in charge thinks with a little persuasion (torture outside the limits of the Geneva Convention) he can get the information he needs to stop the bombing. He turns to you and asks if he should use these techniques. It's up to you now. Do you? 1. Advise the interrogator to continue within the rules in hopes he will give the information needed in the nick of time. 2. Give the OK to stretch the rules hoping that several lives (including your children) will be saved.
February 21, 200917 yr http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/2009/02/19/obama-awol-in-terror-war/#more-551 Thoughts? All of these things can be summed up in the words of Jack Nicholson, "All you've done is weaken a nation". These things are done because they are neccessary.
February 21, 200917 yr No we just sent Japanese-Americans to internment camps. That is really a seperate issue. Those camps were great but they weren't concentration camps and we didn't cut the heads off of anyone there as the Japanese prison camps did. It was racist in nature but it was done so on the home front with the delusional notion that all Japanese could not be trusted on our coast.
February 21, 200917 yr All of these things can be summed up in the words of Jack Nicholson, "All you've done is weaken a nation". These things are done because they are neccessary. What? Give a "Code Red" to a Marine at Guantamano? Apples and Oranges on the quote.
February 21, 200917 yr What? Give a "Code Red" to a Marine at Guantamano? Apples and Oranges on the quote. Wasn't refering to code reds. Was refering to the things in the initial post. Protecting a nation is not always a nice pretty little package, sometimes it is ugly, but these things are necessary. And by eliminating them he is weakening our nation.
February 21, 200917 yr Wasn't refering to code reds. Was refering to the things in the initial post. Protecting a nation is not always a nice pretty little package, sometimes it is ugly, but these things are necessary. And by eliminating them he is weakening our nation. I think that you are also assuming that torture provides both reliable and quick intelligence while ignoring the large possibility of misinformation and clogging of other channels of intelligence while information is verified. Not to mention the breakdown of trust and law between the U.S. and the rest of the world, which certainly provides us protection.
February 21, 200917 yr i am suprised that we have not been attacked or invaded alredy with as much as we have been weakened in these three weeks.
February 21, 200917 yr Wasn't refering to code reds. Was refering to the things in the initial post. Protecting a nation is not always a nice pretty little package, sometimes it is ugly, but these things are necessary. And by eliminating them he is weakening our nation. My point is the quote was not in the same context. I don't see how the non-practice of extreme interrogation techniques makes us less safe. How did we ever survive for 200 years without it? :idunno:
February 22, 200917 yr Under certain circumstances it probably never stopped. It won't stop now. We just won't see or hear about it again.The CIA will hire third party militants to do it for them, and they will leave less witnesses to talk about it.The CIA is not known for their kindness and their job is a necessary one.
February 22, 200917 yr My point is the quote was not in the same context. I don't see how the non-practice of extreme interrogation techniques makes us less safe. How did we ever survive for 200 years without it? :idunno: At what point in time do you think we have not used extreme interrogation techniques?
February 22, 200917 yr I think that you are also assuming that torture provides both reliable and quick intelligence while ignoring the large possibility of misinformation and clogging of other channels of intelligence while information is verified. Not to mention the breakdown of trust and law between the U.S. and the rest of the world, which certainly provides us protection. You are equating extreme interrogation techniques to torture, and also seem to imply that they don't work. Thousands of terrorist actions have been thwarted by our central and military intellegence agencies. Do you honestly not think that other countries do not use extreme interrogation techniques against Americans? War and terrorism are not pretty. Many things must be done to keep this country protected and save American lives.
February 22, 200917 yr You are equating extreme interrogation techniques to torture, and also seem to imply that they don't work. That's because they are the same. And, no, torture does not work in all instances, especially when those being tortured do not have the information we seek. Thousands of terrorist actions have been thwarted by our central and military intellegence agencies. Because of torture? No way. Do you honestly not think that other countries do not use extreme interrogation techniques against Americans? Not countries party to laws we are party to. "Because the terrorists" do it is as poor of a reason for it as it gets. War and terrorism are not pretty. Many things must be done to keep this country protected and save American lives. We may as well not have a country if we are going to subvert our own laws and principles in the name of keeping it.
February 22, 200917 yr At what point in time do you think we have not used extreme interrogation techniques? I was being polite, I'll use the term torture then. It is my understanding that we did not engage in torture during WW I and II. The same was true with our prior conflicts. Can you document a time when we used torture before? I've long had a problem with the tactics used during the current Iraqi conflict. The majority of my objection lies in McCain who himself questioned the use of these tactics. When someone who was a victim of torture and extreme interrogration tactics says we need to do better, I listen. :thumb:
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