God granted us the ability to think and rationalize so that we don't justify situations (like mentioned by acemona) by Scripture. .

 

I bet the Pharisees thought the same thing as they got rid of some of the things they did but thought and rationalize to the rules they came up with.

 

The Bible is full of stories of people ignoring what God said and rationalizing what they thought instead of what God said.

 

Jonah is a good example of that. Surely, God didn't want him to go and be God's witness for salvation to these horrible group of people called the Ninevites.

I understand and really side with you on your post.

 

But Christianity is not LBBC's to decide what goes and what does not.

 

This is what Christ said, whether I like it or not.

 

NOW, if there is other Scripture that indicates something different, I would love to read it and study it. I long for that Scripture so that there is another option.

 

But if I am to follow Christ and this is what he said and nothing is added to it in other Scripture, than I don't have much choice in the matter.

 

Let me also add that all sin is forgiven by and through Christ if we repent and truly ask for His forgiveness and then lead a life that TRIES to avoid sin.

 

 

 

This is one of the scriptures that I struggle with. What I am hoping is that Jesus is setting the paradigm, the ideal that we strive for. I am hoping that He did not exhaust all of the possibilities in His description . . . but like you I have not found it. However, not understanding the relationships that some of my friends had who are divorced and now remarried, I will not pass judgment on them that they have sinned. I don't think that act (divorce) separated them from God, and I believe they are now closer to God than when they were "suffering" in the old relationship. So . . . I would not deny them the opportunity to serve in the Church in any capacity. Jesus called many sinners to be his strongest followers, I don't pretend to be any better than that.

I can't imagine a God who would encourage the idea that a man can divorce and remarry, but a woman can not. .

 

Not sure where this came from.

For what it's worth I am pretty happy with how the Catholic Church handles it. Since my annulment looks like it is going to be granted, I am extremely happy about it.

 

Its like a mulligan! j/k

I have debated this on here several times but it has been a while so let me throw another wrench in the works.

 

What is marriage to God? Is God limited to defining a marriage when a preacher or justice of the peace or the Elvis impersonator in Vegas says they are now legally married?

 

Are you telling me that God is limited on seeing something as a marriage until an Elvis personator says that it is a marriage?

 

If a couple gets married and God is not part of the ceremony, their life or their marriage, does God even recognize it as a marriage?

 

Maybe in God's eyes a marriage is much different than what we see as a marriage.

I am beginning to wonder if that first act of sexual intercourse does not tie us to that person more in God's eyes than we realize.

 

And for the record, that is the view (God's eyes) that I care about more than anyone or anything else's.

Our church had had forums, meetings, and "teachings" on this for almost 3 years; I've posted in here about it before. We are tackling it in the context of qualifications for deacon/pastor.

 

If I am to understand corectly, there is a passage in which Jesus said that if an unbeliever leaves the marriage, that we are to grant that spouse a certificate of divorce. In that instance, and in the instance of divorce as a result of sexual adultery, divorce is permitted. If it is permitted, it cannot be adultery, so I guess the individual circumstances of each person should be looked at case-by-case.

 

I have been representing divorcees for 12 years, and have yet to meet the couple that split in which one side was 100% at fault.

 

I have oft-heard explanations regarding the "context" that Paul and Jesus were talking about divorce at that period of history in scripture. Those explanations seem empty, because I find it difficult to distinguish the divorce crisis going on then from what we have in front of us today - a culture in which it is easy to discard a spouse and obtain a divorce, the removal of marriage as a institution central to daily life. We have the same thing today.

 

I also take issue with the "God gave us the ability to think and rationalize" statements that I see frequently. While the statement itself is true, it is obtuse to use in many contexts since we can rationalize our own behavior any way we want, i.e., my marriage to my previously divorced spouse is blessed, therefore, Jesus can't have made proscription against it. I can rationalize anything, and in fact, that is the way most people treat scripture.

I bet the Pharisees thought the same thing as they got rid of some of the things they did but thought and rationalize to the rules they came up with.

The Pharisees were the ones who were so obsessed with following the law that they ignored doing what was right. Similarly, obsessing about following the Scripture word for word is not what God wants us to do- he wants us to do what is right.

 

Keep in mind that I am not discrediting the Scripture- it is inspired by God and part of the foundation of the faith. But following the Good Book is not the final goal, doing what is right is.

Not sure where this came from.

I have already misread the verse that you quoted (and 5wide corrected me) and I may be doing it again. But what does Matthew 5:30-32 mean?

I also take issue with the "God gave us the ability to think and rationalize" statements that I see frequently. While the statement itself is true, it is obtuse to use in many contexts since we can rationalize our own behavior any way we want, i.e., my marriage to my previously divorced spouse is blessed, therefore, Jesus can't have made proscription against it. I can rationalize anything, and in fact, that is the way most people treat scripture.

God gave us the ability to think and rationalize and find what is true, not to justify our positions. While some people do use seemingly true logic to justify things that are untrue, I think God can sort it out. God knows if we are using the gift of reason to find the truth or simply using it for convenience's sake.

Our church had had forums, meetings, and "teachings" on this for almost 3 years; I've posted in here about it before. We are tackling it in the context of qualifications for deacon/pastor.

 

If I am to understand corectly, there is a passage in which Jesus said that if an unbeliever leaves the marriage, that we are to grant that spouse a certificate of divorce. In that instance, and in the instance of divorce as a result of sexual adultery, divorce is permitted. If it is permitted, it cannot be adultery, so I guess the individual circumstances of each person should be looked at case-by-case.

 

I have been representing divorcees for 12 years, and have yet to meet the couple that split in which one side was 100% at fault.

 

I have oft-heard explanations regarding the "context" that Paul and Jesus were talking about divorce at that period of history in scripture. Those explanations seem empty, because I find it difficult to distinguish the divorce crisis going on then from what we have in front of us today - a culture in which it is easy to discard a spouse and obtain a divorce, the removal of marriage as a institution central to daily life. We have the same thing today.

 

I also take issue with the "God gave us the ability to think and rationalize" statements that I see frequently. While the statement itself is true, it is obtuse to use in many contexts since we can rationalize our own behavior any way we want, i.e., my marriage to my previously divorced spouse is blessed, therefore, Jesus can't have made proscription against it. I can rationalize anything, and in fact, that is the way most people treat scripture.

 

 

 

Okay, in your opinion, just for an example. Say one party wanted and tried everything to make the marriage work, but he married a former drug addict (who had been clean for almost 4 years) and say she got back on drugs and went crazy as a loon and starting seeing another man. Would it be okay for the "innocent" person to get a divorce by your church's stance? Personally, I just can't see Jesus punishing someone the rest of their lives for a situation that was beyond their control, and if the "innocent" divorced person could get closer to Jesus if he married a sober, clean, Christian woman, isn't that what he would want, or is it even possible. It's confusing to me, what's your thoughts?

This is why I have such a hard time with all of this. We are talking about a text that has not been updated in 2000 years. God has had nothing to say in that long. I guess I will never be a Christian since I am divorced, because I did not get divorced because of adultry. I know I am going to get hammered. LBBC will let me know where I am wrong.

This is why I have such a hard time with all of this. We are talking about a text that has not been updated in 2000 years. God has had nothing to say in that long. I guess I will never be a Christian since I am divorced, because I did not get divorced because of adultry. I know I am going to get hammered. LBBC will let me know where I am wrong.

 

Who said anything about remarrying preventing you from becoming a Christian?

 

It says it is a sin. If committing a sin prevents you from becoming a Christian a) than none of us EVER will become a Christian; b) than it stands in contrast to the reason why Jesus had to come to this planet and sacrifice himself for our sins.

 

I guarantee you that I will screw up something today and sin. No different than anyone else's sin that they create.

 

Those sins don't prevent me from being a Christian.

 

Asking for forgiveness and trying to live a sinless life (which by the way I will fail at) is what my reaction should be.

 

The Scripture indicates nothing about never ever being able to be a Christian.

 

Isn't it great that Christ came to remove from God's view ALL the times we mess up in our lives.

Okay, in your opinion, just for an example. Say one party wanted and tried everything to make the marriage work, but he married a former drug addict (who had been clean for almost 4 years) and say she got back on drugs and went crazy as a loon and starting seeing another man. Would it be okay for the "innocent" person to get a divorce by your church's stance? Personally, I just can't see Jesus punishing someone the rest of their lives for a situation that was beyond their control, and if the "innocent" divorced person could get closer to Jesus if he married a sober, clean, Christian woman, isn't that what he would want, or is it even possible. It's confusing to me, what's your thoughts?

 

I'm going to be very careful here, but I want to try and lend thoughts since you asked me:

 

1. The man married the woman knowing she was a former drug addict. I would have a hard time labeling him as "innocent" if the problems caused by drugs were the reason for subsequently wanting out. Mind you, I'm not saying that the man is "bad," just not "innocent."

 

2. Reading between the lines, I would say that the real reason for the man's departure was the wife "seeing another man," not the wife's return to drugs.

 

3. What was the reason that the woman returned to drugs? Was it pure addiction or was the wife being ignored and left alone and depressed about the relationship she turned back to drugs? The answers to those questions may very well have a bearing as to whether all of this was "beyond [his] control."

 

4. Did the man, a Christian, make any effort whatsoever to help the woman turn her eyes to Christ, or did the man, upset by the affair, write the marriage off because the alternative was too hard?

 

5. Perhaps you will agree that the statement "I can't see Jesus punishing someone" is somewhat superficial, and reflective, IMO, of the lack of depth that we as humans assign to Christ sometimes. In your scenario, the man sees this situation about how it affects HIM and not 1) how it affects the wife 2) what responsibility he has to his wife and 3) what Jesus thinks about his responsibility to his wife.

 

6. The man is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of the church. The one first called to stand up in times of crisis and weakness is the man.

 

7. I am probably not given all of the facts here, but the question as I view it is what would Jesus have said to the husband about his efforts to maintain covenant with his wife?

 

8. If an effort had been made to attempt to maintain the marital covenant, despite the problems, and that effort had continued to be rejected by the wife, then I believe that at some point, the man, impeded in his relationship with Christ, could brush the sand from his feet, and grant the wife a divorce. In that instance, I do not believe his subsequent remarriage could be categorized as adultery because his grounds for divorce were both sexual adultery and abandonment by his former spouse.

 

I do not believe that Christ asks us to "pick" one type of person over another. I believe that Christ seeks marital covenants designed to 1) make a "gift" of one spouse to the other and vice versa that brings each other peace and joy; and 2) provide an environment in which to raise children up to know God.

 

These are my thoughts. Perhaps they are not exactly what you had in mind or wanted to hear, but they are my thoughts.

I would also note that, having taken some information on this, after 12 years of divorce practice, the number one reason that couples divorce is not sexual infidelity, financial crisis, or even lack of communication (though all three are symptoms of the underlying problem), but choosing other relationships (usually the children) in place of the spouse.

 

Your relationship with your children is NOT more important than your relationship with your spouse.

 

Let me type that again, slowly, so that it sinks in.

 

Your relationship with your children is NOT more important than your relationship with your spouse.

 

Perhaps that is another thread.

I would also note that, having taken some information on this, after 12 years of divorce practice, the number one reason that couples divorce is not sexual infidelity, financial crisis, or even lack of communication (though all three are symptoms of the underlying problem), but choosing other relationships (usually the children) in place of the spouse.

 

Your relationship with your children is NOT more important than your relationship with your spouse.

 

Let me type that again, slowly, so that it sinks in.

 

Your relationship with your children is NOT more important than your relationship with your spouse.

 

Perhaps that is another thread.

 

 

Here! Here! :clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

I am experiencing this very thing with my sister and her husband. After years of personal investment into her daughter (just recently married) and willingness to let it happen by her hubbie, she now seeks out of a 29 year marriage. That's all I will say about it at this time but you are absolutely right on this Hearsay.

Okay, in your opinion, just for an example. Say one party wanted and tried everything to make the marriage work, but he married a former drug addict (who had been clean for almost 4 years) and say she got back on drugs and went crazy as a loon and starting seeing another man. Would it be okay for the "innocent" person to get a divorce by your church's stance? Personally, I just can't see Jesus punishing someone the rest of their lives for a situation that was beyond their control, and if the "innocent" divorced person could get closer to Jesus if he married a sober, clean, Christian woman, isn't that what he would want, or is it even possible. It's confusing to me, what's your thoughts?

 

2 Corinthians 6:14

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

 

Matthew 7:14

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

I believe scripture is pertinent to all situations, but all scripture is pertinent. If marriages fail for reasons besides marital infidelity, it is probably because they were not equally yoked. Therefore they did not have a proper covenant with God. I don't think God ever honored the marriage, so the divorce is not relevant.

Of course I am not God, and this is just my interpretation of his word. I try to stay on the narrow way. When we verse off we have to deal with the consequences. Those consequences may be living the rest of lives without marriage.

These are some very interesting thoughts to say the least!

 

I just have two very simple thoughts

 

1. Love God with all of your heart mind and spirit

2. Love your neighbor as yourself.

 

This is the image all christians should strive for, but to actually understand what these two laws mean... well, by grace of His Spirit I pray that all people would understand what is meant. Then, to figure out divorce would not even be a priority.