Yes. Just because people think SOME are fixable doesn't mean they do not exist, they do. There are all kinds of ideas on here. I haven't seen any that haven't been tried over and over and over and ..... you get the idea. There is more dreaming on here than reality. I wish it weren't so.

 

Can you clarify this? I'm not following you.

The fact that people are coming up with ideas to get a part of this population working simply does not mean that there are those out there that are not employable. This is certainly nothing new and has existed since way before any social programs were in place.

I would prefer that you not quote your opinion to me and yet you do because this is a free board. Maybe you should ask your priest what we are supposed to do with the poor, or spend some time in the scripture yourself. I didn't interpret, I just put out there for you to read and you can do with it what you wish. I am sorry that you think your religious beliefs have no bearing on how we treat the poor, that is the primary focus of mine. It is what drives my opinions. I cannot separate how I think we ought to treat the poor from what the scripture says.

 

What moral authority are you using in your judgment of how we should treat them?

You continue to twist things into whatever you want them to mean. Shameless! You are trying really hard to label me as someone that doesn't care about the poor. That's a flat out lie and absurd on your part. I said the ones that don't care about themselves, I don't care about. How is that in any way, shape or form not caring about the poor? :idunno:

It is also rather offensive that you wish to attack my religious beliefs, again, shameful.

. . . Provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare . . .

 

TB your question is much too hard. It is much easier to complain about those who are a drain on the rest of us than it is to come up with a solution.

 

We want our Christian heritage to win the day when it comes to abortion and laws governing it, but not when it comes to taking care of the poor. You see abortion is a societal problem that can only be solved by declaring the practice illegal. Poverty on the other hand is a personal problem and can only be solved by me deciding for myself what to do with my money. Again MY decision with MY money is more protectable than MY decision with MY body.

 

The bigger problem is that all those who are poor are simply there because they choose to be. They chose to be born to alcoholic/drug addicted parents who saw no value in education. They were then taught by teachers who knew nothing of their circumstances but were quick to chastise the poor student because he did not do his homework (while taking care of his younger siblings while mom was drunk and may have been at work, or drunk and beating him as well). They then chose to get so far behind in school that there was no light for them at the end of the tunnel that they dropped out so that they could help pay for food and rent in their little dumpy house. If only they had chosen to be a better person then they wouldn't be such a drag on everyone else. Their pure laziness led them to where they are now and they should probably just beg on the streets since their shouldn't be any programs for them and hopefully all of the people on here who want to make their own decisions with their own money will stop by and give them some money. But of course the poor young man will probably just use the money to buy alcohol or drugs (to self medicate since they can't afford therapy or prescription drugs) so better not to give them money - I guess we just let them starve they chose that path anyway.

 

I agree with a lot of what you say. There are a lot of people who are looking for a hand up. But you seem to be unwilling to admit that there are also a lot of people looking for a hand out. I don't have the answer to the whole thing but throwing more and more money at it is not the answer. There is a line some where between helping and enabling.

 

As far as the bolded part. The folks who wrote that concidered people who didn't work to be vagrants and bums. You'll never convince me that when they said "promote the general welfare" that they meant take money from one person and gibve it to another.

I agree with a lot of what you say. There are a lot of people who are looking for a hand up. But you seem to be unwilling to admit that there are also a lot of people looking for a hand out. I don't have the answer to the whole thing but throwing more and more money at it is not the answer. There is a line some where between helping and enabling.

 

As far as the bolded part. The folks who wrote that concidered people who didn't work to be vagrants and bums. You'll never convince me that when they said "promote the general welfare" that they meant take money from one person and gibve it to another.

 

I understand that there are those looking for a hand out, however, that does not make the system bad. I also believe that this is a VERY small minority. The welfare system is generally a helping hand. It is based on your income, and it does not allow you to live luxuriously and every kid in my school whose family recieves aid certainly wants something better.

 

The founding fathers certainly believed in the redistribution of wealth as long as they were adequately represented. Taxation by its very nature is taking money from one place and putting it somewhere else.

Means absolutly zero to me. So yuk it up, you surely aren't practicing what you're preaching either by your attitude. :sssh:

 

Care to show how I'm going against the "Love Thy Neighbor" Commandment? You can't because I'm not.

 

To be blunt with you Hatz, I'll listen to my priest, not a precher, no offense intended.

 

:clap:

 

Way to spin it RTS. Truth is my degrees are probably the same your priest has, maybe more.

 

The reality is that, as Ace pointed out, you've changed your arguments so much you spin more than Carvelle on the Hannity show. (Just to be blunt)

 

BTW, it's Preacher (not precher) and no offense is taken since I prefer the term Minister. :thumb:

Edited January 31, 200917 yr by Hatz

So you have a priest who tells you not to care about certain people?

:clap:

 

Way to spin it RTS. Truth is my degrees are probably the same your priest has, maybe more.

 

The reality is that, as Ace pointed out, you've changed your arguments so much you spin more than Carvelle on the Hannity show. (Just to be blunt)

 

BTW, it's Preacher (not precher) and no offense is taken since I prefer the term Minister. :thumb:

The only "spin" here is on the two of you. Oh, so sorry I misspelled Preacher.

 

I haven't changed a single thing, hence the huge spin on your behalf. Minister, Preacher, makes no difference to me. I don't care to be preached to, I go to church. Your degrees, and I mean no disrespect, don't mean a single thing to me. I'm Catholic and I'm really not interested in your take on religion, again, nothing personal. My view of this had zero to do with religion, the two of you constantly inject it into the discussion (why, I have no idea) when it comes to me. So do me a favor and leave the religious comments out when quoting me or discussing this with me.

I'm fine with you disagreeing with me, but please stop the religious talk, drives me nuts.

So you have a priest who tells you not to care about certain people?

:ohbrother:

 

Oh good Lord! If you can find where I said that, feel free to point it out, otherwise...

:ohbrother:

 

Oh good Lord! If you can find where I said that, feel free to point it out, otherwise...

 

If you didn't say it, why do you think everyone is getting that opinion. It has been very explicit in what you have said. I promise, I know Pigman, and am familiar with Hatz background and while I may be those two are certainly not dense.

If you didn't say it, why do you think everyone is getting that opinion. It has been very explicit in what you have said. I promise, I know Pigman, and am familiar with Hatz background and while I may be those two are certainly not dense.

Point it out then!

 

The 3 of you doesn't = everyone....

[/b]

Point it out then!

 

The 3 of you doesn't = everyone....

 

"Honestly, why should I care if they don't? "

 

"Sorry, I don't see where the Bible tells me to care about someone that doesn't care. Can you enlighten me? You even ask for enlightenment and then yell at me later for showing you the scripture"

 

"If someone doesn't care about about working, I have no reason to care that they're lazy and as a result, poor."

 

"I said the ones that don't care about themselves, I don't care about"

 

These are some of your quotes from various posts in this thread. :thumb:

Honestly, why should I care if they don't?

 

Sorry, I don't see where the Bible tells me to care about someone that doesn't care. Can you enlighten me?

 

RTS, I think that the perception that some are feeling in this forum comes from these statements. I think, as so often happens with words (even of our elected leaders) people get the wrong impression.

 

I think that acemona, Hatz and pigman are saying that Jesus preached love for everyone. He did not exclude any person based on anything - race, gender, socioeconomic status, attitude, etc. There was not a single person, including the criminals on the crosses next to him, that he did not feel compassion for.

 

FWIW, I don't believe that you don't care about these people. Your caring comes in wanting them to change and take responsibility of their own lives.

RTS, I think that the perception that some are feeling in this forum comes from these statements. I think, as so often happens with words (even of our elected leaders) people get the wrong impression.

 

I think that acemona, Hatz and pigman are saying that Jesus preached love for everyone. He did not exclude any person based on anything - race, gender, socioeconomic status, attitude, etc. There was not a single person, including the criminals on the crosses next to him, that he did not feel compassion for.

 

FWIW, I don't believe that you don't care about these people. Your caring comes in wanting them to change and take responsibility of their own lives.

 

How do you do that with the little blue boxes??

[/b]

 

"Honestly, why should I care if they don't? "

 

"Sorry, I don't see where the Bible tells me to care about someone that doesn't care. Can you enlighten me? You even ask for enlightenment and then yell at me later for showing you the scripture"

 

"If someone doesn't care about about working, I have no reason to care that they're lazy and as a result, poor."

 

"I said the ones that don't care about themselves, I don't care about"

 

These are some of your quotes from various posts in this thread. :thumb:

Yeah, and...

 

POINT OUT WHERE I SAID MY PRIEST TELLS ME NOT TO CARE ABOUT CERTAIN PEOPLE.

 

For the love of all that's holy, this is the RIDICULOUS spin I've been talking about. Get a grip!

 

 

Are you LBBC? That's who I asked to enlighten me.