January 31, 200917 yr I understand your frustration with me, but I simply don't see it as a child or a baby or a human being, so there is nothing i need to get upset with. As a Christian, it is irrelevant on how we see it. How does God see it? As a baby or a blob of cells? Is that the standard that we as Christians are to live by? How God views things and not how we view things? I absolutely agree with you that we MUST do more for the poor in this country because it is what Jesus' calls us to do. I think it should be through our churches while you think it is through government. But the key is that we both agree that it is what Christ calls us to do as Christians. Not what ace or lbbc thinks we should do but what Christ indicates for us to do. So, I ask you what does Christ and God see an unborn baby as? And would they consider it killing an unborn child?
January 31, 200917 yr Prominent feminist (and abortion supporter) Camille Paglia would disagree with you: Isn't she the one that thinks/thought all sexual intercourse is rape?
January 31, 200917 yr Isn't she the one that thinks/thought all sexual intercourse is rape? From a quick search, you are thinking of Catherine MacKinnon or Andrea Dworkin, but regardless neither is true.
February 1, 200917 yr As a Christian, it is irrelevant on how we see it. How does God see it? As a baby or a blob of cells? Is that the standard that we as Christians are to live by? How God views things and not how we view things? I absolutely agree with you that we MUST do more for the poor in this country because it is what Jesus' calls us to do. I think it should be through our churches while you think it is through government. But the key is that we both agree that it is what Christ calls us to do as Christians. Not what ace or lbbc thinks we should do but what Christ indicates for us to do. So, I ask you what does Christ and God see an unborn baby as? And would they consider it killing an unborn child? I don't know how God would see it, therefore I will leave it up to the individual, not how I THINK God view it. If you want to get specific about it and be literal in your translation, Adam recieved LIFE when God breathed life into him, not when Adam was formed. Life came when Adam took the first breath. Did Adam have a soul when he was FORMED or did he have a SOUL when God breathed into him? Why is that not true for the unborn? They come alive and get their SOUL when God breathes that first big breath into them? don't know that I believe that either, but it is certainly plausible with the scripture.
February 1, 200917 yr I don't know how God would see it, therefore I will leave it up to the individual, not how I THINK God view it. If you want to get specific about it and be literal in your translation, Adam recieved LIFE when God breathed life into him, not when Adam was formed. Life came when Adam took the first breath. Did Adam have a soul when he was FORMED or did he have a SOUL when God breathed into him? Why is that not true for the unborn? They come alive and get their SOUL when God breathes that first big breath into them? don't know that I believe that either, but it is certainly plausible with the scripture. You Adam argument would have weight if an unborn baby didn't have a heartbeat, was moving around, could feel things, etc, etc. THere is a difference between Adam when he was formed and could do none of these things and an unborn child. Your argument, when considering what an unborn child can do while in the womb, ends up supporting my position more than it does yours. Since you do not know what God thinks and therefore not how you think he would view it, why not the same position on the treatment of those who live in poverty? Good discussion that is beyond the normal discussion on abortion.
February 1, 200917 yr You Adam argument would have weight if an unborn baby didn't have a heartbeat, was moving around, could feel things, etc, etc. THere is a difference between Adam when he was formed and could do none of these things and an unborn child. Your argument, when considering what an unborn child can do while in the womb, ends up supporting my position more than it does yours. Since you do not know what God thinks and therefore not how you think he would view it, why not the same position on the treatment of those who live in poverty? Good discussion that is beyond the normal discussion on abortion. Why haven't doctors and other scientists simply said, "this is when life begins". There is obviously legitimate scientific disagreement. And, there is not specific scriptual reference. Again, if you look in the old testament about punishment for harming a pregnant woman, it does not leave you with the impression that that a fetus is a "life." Jesus is very explicit about how we treat the poor. Of course I alway use matthew 25: whatever you do to the least of these you have done to me. Most of the Red Letters in the bible deal with our treatment of one another and even commands that we love one another.
February 1, 200917 yr Why haven't doctors and other scientists simply said, "this is when life begins". There is obviously legitimate scientific disagreement. And, there is not specific scriptual reference. Again, if you look in the old testament about punishment for harming a pregnant woman, it does not leave you with the impression that that a fetus is a "life." Jesus is very explicit about how we treat the poor. Of course I alway use matthew 25: whatever you do to the least of these you have done to me. Most of the Red Letters in the bible deal with our treatment of one another and even commands that we love one another. A bit off topic, but IMO worth mentioning. Apparently, if the doctors came out and said "this is when life begins" you would have to re-evaluate your abortion position. However, from my experiences, an overwhelming majority of economists would be against large-scale, government-forced wealth redistribution & welfare as means for ending poverty. Some would even argue that high taxation for "economic justice" wind up with so much deadweight loss that the economy can not reach potential, which only hurts the poor even more. Do you not respect their expert opinions?
February 2, 200917 yr A bit off topic, but IMO worth mentioning. Apparently, if the doctors came out and said "this is when life begins" you would have to re-evaluate your abortion position. However, from my experiences, an overwhelming majority of economists would be against large-scale, government-forced wealth redistribution & welfare as means for ending poverty. Some would even argue that high taxation for "economic justice" wind up with so much deadweight loss that the economy can not reach potential, which only hurts the poor even more. Do you not respect their expert opinions? I disagree with the premise that an overwhelming majority of economists are against what Obama has proposed. I think he has surrounded himself with a large number of economists to develop the plan.
February 2, 200917 yr Why haven't doctors and other scientists simply said, "this is when life begins". There is obviously legitimate scientific disagreement. And, there is not specific scriptual reference. Again, if you look in the old testament about punishment for harming a pregnant woman, it does not leave you with the impression that that a fetus is a "life." Jesus is very explicit about how we treat the poor. Of course I alway use matthew 25: whatever you do to the least of these you have done to me. Most of the Red Letters in the bible deal with our treatment of one another and even commands that we love one another. Wonder if Jesus meant unborn children as ONE of those least? What is more least than an unborn child? Also, on Judgement Day and God is putting forth what ace has done, will it be Ace's view (in which you referenced earlier) or will it be God's view of how things should have gone? If it is God's view, is it not wise than for us to try and seek that view (reading God's mind for the PC of today's society) rather than just do what we think is right?
February 2, 200917 yr I disagree with the premise that an overwhelming majority of economists are against what Obama has proposed. I think he has surrounded himself with a large number of economists to develop the plan. Joe Scarbrough who was firmly in Obama's camp this election said this morning that no economist is supporting the House stimulus plan as economic stimulus.
February 2, 200917 yr Wonder if Jesus meant unborn children as ONE of those least? What is more least than an unborn child? Also, on Judgement Day and God is putting forth what ace has done, will it be Ace's view (in which you referenced earlier) or will it be God's view of how things should have gone? If it is God's view, is it not wise than for us to try and seek that view (reading God's mind for the PC of today's society) rather than just do what we think is right? How do you know that LBBC's view is any closer to God's view than ace's view? Both of you have an interpretation.
February 2, 200917 yr Author How can one be opposed to abortion and supportive of the death penalty? Innocent vs. guilty. Having said that, I don't see the value of the death penalty when there is so much time between the crime committed and the execution (no pun intended) of the punishment. I am not opposed to the death penalty, but I am opposed to it when a decade elapses between crime & punishment. It is not a deterrent in that scenario. I would not have a problem if the death penalty, as we know it in America, was outlawed. And I can't believe that some people do not view life in the womb as life. Surgeries are performed regularly on children in the womb. In one instance, a doctor at Vanderbilt was performing surgery, and the child's hand grasped the doctor's finger in the process. When a woman has an abortion, it's not her heart that stops beating. When the chemicals are injected to end life in the womb, it's not the mother's body that shirks and resists the burning. I did not vote for Obama, because his record is one of doing whatever necessary to keep this barbaric procedure legal. My vote has NEVER and WILL NEVER be based on race. If former Congressman J.C. Watts of Oklahoma ran for President, I'd vote for him. As I would vote for Mr. Steele of Maryland (I think it's Maryland). I have never voted pro-abortion and never will.
February 2, 200917 yr How do you know that LBBC's view is any closer to God's view than ace's view? Both of you have an interpretation. I don't give a rat's pootootie about LBBC's view. I am trying to study and learn about God's view. My comment was in response to ace saying he was not going to try and figure out God's view but rather go on his view. My comment is that his and I's view are irrelevant as well as TB&G's view. IT IS God's view that we best be trying to figure out because on Judgement Day, our view and a $1.00 will get you a McDouble at McDonald's.
February 3, 200917 yr I don't get the comparison between abortion/capitol punishment. I'm against abortion, but in certain cases for CP.
February 3, 200917 yr I don't get the comparison between abortion/capitol punishment. I'm against abortion, but in certain cases for CP. I generally agree, Larry. I'm OK with the concept of the DP but I'm not OK with how its been administered. Too many errors and before anyone starts citing percentage of time its been correct remember that if its you then it better be 100% or its the same as 0%. I'm against abortion but I'm not comfortable with making it a crime because I don't see how you can rationalize an appropriate sentence.
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